4NCL North 2013-14

[Jonathan Rogers]

I've been surprised (well, I'll be honest with you: not very surprised) that no one has picked up on Turner v Dearing, rd 4, where Eddie presumably misunderstood how the clocks worked and lost on time in a completely won position. So we've had a full point swing in a game with very strong players during this period of transition.

[E Michael White]

I get it. It wasn't clear to me what Nick meant by "relevant" 60th move.

As an aside :- even when the move counter and clock indicators are used it will still be necessary for arbiters to keep a close look at games and it won't always be the case that a game is lost when a players clock shows 0.0. The most awkward case is where a player's flag falls, unobserved by the arbiter and unclaimed by his opponent, then the player makes a move which reaches a position where his opponent cannot possibly checkmate, then before the player presses his clock his opponent notices the flag fall.

[David Robertson]

I watched the conclusion of Nick Ivell-Malcolm Armstrong, albeit from the wrong side of the clock. To be honest, I had some sympathy with Malcolm's confusion. No tragedy here though, unlike Turner-Dearing, because Armstrong was already lost beyond redemption.

But it causes me to wonder whether we've got this right, not least in the light of my own loss on time to David Walker in Rd 1, falling an unprecedented (for me) nine moves short of the time control (no tragedy here either). I was utterly startled to lose on time. I'd back myself to make ten moves in five minutes, but clearly was nowhere near making ten moves in each of thirty seconds. Moreover, Alex McFarlane was on hand to confirm my fate, so nothing was spared in terms of arbiter duties.

I wonder then whether we've created a classic example of Aegrescit medendo; hence, whether we would be better off reverting to the previous arrangement; and whether in fact clock disputes are sufficiently infrequent that we'd prefer instead to avoid unhappiness caused by these new time limits.

[Mike Truran]

Maybe one for the end of season captains' meeting? (Which BTW I suppose I had better get round to arranging at some point ......)

Or is evidence from only one season maybe insufficient and we would do better to see how things are once they settle down?

[MartinCarpenter]

Talking about the 3N competition coming of age, I just checked the stats and they really are dramatic. A fairly obvious large shift on the ground of course, but the magnitude of it once quantified did still surprise me slightly.

In 2012/13 the competition had 8 teams with average grades of 180, 175, 168, 167, 162, 160, 158 and 154 and an average team of ~ 181, 173, 169, 165, 156, 147. Bradford got 12/12 and Cheddleton 2 10/12. A worthwhile competition still but defintely struggling a bit more than you'd like.

In 2013/14 this had turned into 14 teams with average grades of 193, 188, 180, 177, 177, 175, 170, 165, 164, 162, 154, 150, 149 and 138. Average team of 177, 175, 171, 166, 160, 151 or over the top 10 teams 184, 181, 178, 175, 169, 161. Very solid indeed. No real surprise that Cheddleton 2 only managed 7/12, or even NE1 9/12. Given that Spirit had to play almost the entire top of that field, 11/12 was a very impressive return.

To nearly double the number of teams and significantly increase the average strength at the same time? Very impressive. Gently astonishing even.

I guess the ideal now is getting all of Leeds old boys/NE1 and Spirit A up with no one down, and really stuff Division 2 with Northerners That'd likely weaken 3N a bit for next year, although that isn't entirely obvious. The team strength distribution is quite similar to what the Yorkshire league manages/several untapped players in Manchester still etc.

[LawrenceCooper]

Round 7 pairings now on the 4NCL website: http://www.4ncl.co.uk/1314_fixdiv3.htm

[LawrenceCooper]

Weekend 4 pairings: Division 3
14.3.14 - Revised pairings for round seven for (the combined) Division 3 are necessary because of the withdrawal of Manchester Manticores second team. Pairings can be viewed here: http://www.4ncl.co.uk/1314_fixdiv3.htm

[Mick Norris]

West is Best usually goes to Abdul's in Daventry. Parking about 50 yards away.

The downside and that's perhaps the reason why it's not full with chess players on a Saturday night is that they don't serve alcohol.
On the plus side the portions are big and it has a nice atmosphere!!!

here is the tripadvisor link: http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant ... gland.html

We went to an Indian in Lutterworth called Vojon, which was excellent, just a problem that Lutterworth was a bit of a trek

This weekend we decided to stick closer to Daventry - We went to The White Horse at Norton, where we were the only people eating food, but despite/because of this the service was slow and we wouldn't rush back

Last night we went to Asia in Daventry, which was excellent - we'll go back, and they know when the chess weekends are, so I assume lots of other teams have found it

[MartinCarpenter]

We were holed up in Rugby for whatever reason. Nice enough place of course. Chunks of afternoon time in Ashby St Ledgers too which is a bit astonishingly nice for the Midlands. Thatched houses etc.

Nice to see Spirit going up and no massive tie break pile up. Div3 combined does seem to have grown into a slightly insane exercise numbers wise.

[Mick Norris]

Yes, great to see SoA get promoted, hope they keep a B team in Div 3 North next season

We get Bradford A back too, hopefully they will keep 3 teams too

We should manage to keep 2 Manticores teams next season

[MartinCarpenter]

I'd have thought 3 Bradford teams should be very possible. They were only about one player short this year so with their A team coming down the numbers mesh quite nicely.

If it ends up strengthening their B team slightly they should be a rather solid proposition too. Not that they weren't already. Plenty of very solid ~170(+) Yorkshire league veterans in there.

[Mick Norris]

I hope so, I got positive feedback from Cheddleton, and as far as I know Holmes Chapel will continue, as will NE England with 2 teams

I'm not sure if Ferry will keep 2 teams, but like us they should be Ok for the northern venues with 2 teams

We have space for more players in our squad, but I would like to see some new teams too, whether transferring from Div 3 South or brand new entries

[MartinCarpenter]

Well White Rose do seem to have a full 30 players registered for just 2 teams of 8.....

[MartinCarpenter]

Just had the proposed (2015/6) reoorganisation e-mail passed round from Jorvik's captain. Looks rather sane to me.
(Principally splitting Div3 geographically on a full time basis, and keeping 3N/3S size balanced with a Div4(S) to mop up everyone else.).

Not entirely sure if Div3N has quite enough strong enough teams to sustain 2 qualifiers every year, but we'll see. Not that far off I guess.

Might surprise some gently, with me being a modest sceptic about the top divisions of 3N but I can actually the mooted potential div 4N being potentially possible/useful at some stage. The third division of the Yorkshire league really has been struggling rather to sustain itself in a fully satisfactory manner in recent years. So with 3N going fully northern, needing slightly smaller teams overall and having some other areas to draw on for extra teams, I don't actually think its too radical to imagine that Div3 of the Yorkshire league might not get essentially supplanted at some point. ~7 teams of 8 players in that division right now, although maybe ~8 teams really in there strength wise.
(The bottom 3 boards of Jorvik on Sunday/Monday last weekend are a chunk of York's D team who basically come from that division. Top two divisions of the Yorkshire league working very nicely mind ).

[Sean Hewitt]

Not entirely sure if Div3N has quite enough strong enough teams to sustain 2 qualifiers every year, but we'll see.

It's worth looking at how many Northern teams have been promoted each season since the inception of Div3(N)

2013/14 - 1
2012/13 - 1
2011/12 - 1
2010/11 - 2 (when the Northern league had the inbuilt advantage of joining the rest of the league at round 9 instead of round 7, and were virtually guaranteed promotion before the final weekend as a result)

Interestingly, every one of those promoted Northern team has been immediately relegated after just one season in the higher division, except for Spirit of Atticus who were relegated after two seasons in Div2.

This is in no way a criticism of the teams in the Northern league. Spirit of Atticus thoroughly deserved their promotion this season, and good luck to them in Div2. However, it does seem difficult to justify giving two promotion places to the Northern league based on the evidence, and I suspect we'll end up with even more Div2/3 yo-yo-ing if this format goes ahead.

That said, the league had to do something to address the hotel rooms issue between Hinckley and Daventry and perhaps this is the least worst solution, but I'm not sure. At least the play off idea got binned.