Aditya Verma

[Jonathan Bryant]

If indeed, it was as I described - a joke intended solely for friends with entirely unintended consequences - then a criminal conviction is disproportionate.

Here's the problem Nick: you say "ah but the Grenfell one was different" - which I don't disagree with actually. In part due to the reasons you cite.

But then you immediately say that the case of this thread would be disproportionate for reasons that exactly describe the Grenfell case.

So are we saying that one we prosecute and one we don't ... because we don't want to? Because that's no basis for a system of law.


Also: you seem to be suggesting that the criminal concept of "recklessness" should just be ignored in this case. Again, I don't think we can just pick and choose when we apply the law and when we don't. Same is true for the "in other circumstances nobody would have been bothered" argument. Again, I don't disagree with it per se, but the same is equally true for every single possible criminal offence up to and including murder.



Of course all this is hypothetical for the moment whilst the situation is still playing out beyond our legal jurisdiction. I don't know the Spanish, "Well it was just foolish teenage bantz so let's say no more about it" but I doubt we're going to hear it any time soon.

They're hardly going to want to say
"It's open season for jokes that cost us 000000s of euros we don't mind paying up - and no we're not going to just ignore stuff like this because can you imagine all the aggro we'd get if did and it turned out to be a real threat?"

are they?

[Jonathan Bryant]

Young man with a promising future?

Ah yes, as opposed to Northern lad from a deprived area who can't afford to go to University, who presumably wouldn't be let off

It's certainly true that the criminal justice system has an established track record of caring about the futures of some people considerably more than others.
It's not an appealing look, I have to say.

[Alan Walton]

The way I look at it, why would you ever joke about a bomb on a plane; he has been found to be a total idiot and deserves any consequences for his stupidity

[David Shepherd]

The way I look at it, why would you ever joke about a bomb on a plane; he has been found to be a total idiot and deserves any consequences for his stupidity

I think he deserves reasonable consequences rather than "any" consequences. The question is what are reasonable consequences and without full knowledge of the facts it is not possible to judge.

[JustinHorton]

he has been found to be a total idiot

He hasn't been "found" to be anything at all as yet.

[Geoff Chandler]

'...without full knowledge of the facts it is not possible to judge;

Since when has full a knowledge of the facts stopped this or any
other forum from pre-judging and jumping to conclusions.

As an elderly chess player (and therefore 'apparently' a racist - good grief!)
I feel inclined, nay, an uncontrollable urge, to jump into the deep end.
Having the full facts would only weigh me down.

I'd use 'total idiot' if he intended to scare everyone witless and knew what he was
doing would result in mayhem and I'd agree, he would deserve to get clobbered.

But it's reading like an 18 year old boy all excited and hyper because he is going on holiday
with his friends. He sends a text to his friends on what he thought was an closed and private
medium. No malice was intended, it was not a deliberate hoax. It was naive.

It appears naivety is Aditya's only defence, the gravity of the situation means he will not
get off with just a slap on the wrist. I expect he will get a fine and I'm afraid a criminal record.
(my expectation is based on not having all the facts.)

Cambridge should still accept him. Having a criminal record does not prevent you
from attending university. I was recently reminded of Stephen Fry, 3 months inside for
credit card fraud when he 17. He went to Cambridge.

99% of the posters here were 17-18 once.
I bet we could fill pages with silly things, not fully aware of the consequences, we did at that age.
I was always in trouble at that age, the only thing that ever varied was the depth.

[Roger Lancaster]

'...without full knowledge of the facts it is not possible to judge;

Since when has full a knowledge of the facts stopped this or any
other forum from pre-judging and jumping to conclusions.

As an elderly chess player (and therefore 'apparently' a racist - good grief!)
I feel inclined, nay, an uncontrollable urge, to jump into the deep end.
Having the full facts would only weigh me down.

I'd use 'total idiot' if he intended to scare everyone witless and knew what he was
doing would result in mayhem and I'd agree, he would deserve to get clobbered.

But it's reading like an 18 year old boy all excited and hyper because he is going on holiday
with his friends. He sends a text to his friends on what he thought was an closed and private
medium. No malice was intended, it was not a deliberate hoax. It was naive.

It appears naivety is Aditya's only defence, the gravity of the situation means he will not
get off with just a slap on the wrist. I expect he will get a fine and I'm afraid a criminal record.
(my expectation is based on not having all the facts.)

Cambridge should still accept him. Having a criminal record does not prevent you
from attending university. I was recently reminded of Stephen Fry, 3 months inside for
credit card fraud when he 17. He went to Cambridge.

99% of the posters here were 17-18 once.
I bet we could fill pages with silly things, not fully aware of the consequences, we did at that age.
I was always in trouble at that age, the only thing that ever varied was the depth.

I think I'd agree with that. I'm not a Snapchat user but, as I understand it, Snapchat messages are normally encrypted so Aditya had a reasonable expectation that what he intended as a joke (albeit perhaps not a tasteful joke) among friends would remain private. Most of us have, from time to time, private conversations which we wouldn't want to pass into the public domain - to take a different example, because they might be held to be defamatory. It was Aditya's misfortunate that, for reasons he couldn't have anticipated, that happened here.

[Andrew Zigmond]

I made the point elsewhere that in the first term of the New Labour government two teenage sons of those holding great offices of state were arrested (one for drug offences, the other for drunk and incapable) causing considerable embarrassment for their fathers and even more for themselves. Despite this both have gone on to extremely successful careers.

As this thread enters its fifth page I really, really think that there is nothing more to say and Carl or Jack should lock the thread. I also stand by my view that the "hey look at this, what a ..." response of so many chess players is driven by underlying racism.

[Joey Stewart]

As this thread enters its fifth page I really, really think that there is nothing more to say and Carl or Jack should lock the thread.

Conveniently giving you the last word with no option for anyone to retort...
I think even if nothing else can be added most people now want to know the outcome of this case.

[Matt Bridgeman]

I’d imagine there will be news interest with each court hearing, although I’ve not seen what date the next Spanish hearing is or whether it’s definitely gone to the higher court there. It will be interesting to see if the Spanish let it go and decide to load up on the poor lad.

[NickFaulks]

It was Aditya's misfortunate that, for reasons he couldn't have anticipated, that happened here.

I came to understand a long time ago that it was best to assume that any electronic communication could be intercepted by our masters. This was a culture shock and I had to work it out for myself, but my children grew up in the digital world and to them it is second nature. How an intelligent teenager in 2022 can have failed to grasp that the spooks are everywhere is a mystery to me.

[David Sedgwick]

I also stand by my view that the "hey look at this, what a ..." response of so many chess players is driven by underlying racism.

If you hadn't made that allegation, I wouldn't have had the faintest idea whether Aditya Verma's skin colour was black, white or green.*

(* Well. perhaps the last would have been unlikely.)

[Roger Lancaster]

As this thread enters its fifth page I really, really think that there is nothing more to say and Carl or Jack should lock the thread.

Also agreed - much more than enough has already been said.

[Jonathan Bryant]

For now people should email me if needed not sure why notifications are not working.

Carl, what is your email address? It's not given in your bio.

[JustinHorton]

I also stand by my view that the "hey look at this, what a ..." response of so many chess players is driven by underlying racism.

This is a reckless and irresponsible thing for you to say, Andrew. If any given individual were to challenge you and ask if you were referring to them, would would you say? Yes? No? What would the consequences be either way?