Accusation against Alejandro Ramirez

[NickFaulks]

MJM. So how does this affect your view on the topic under discussion?

[Roger Lancaster]

But if we are being honest, what are the chances of him being the only titled player guilty of that charge.

What is your point?

I can think of a certain English GM with a far worse reputation than him, I'm sure you know who I mean. Unfortunately, some of us have seen him in action firsthand on that front, and more than once or twice.

Just to be clear, as Alejandro Ramirez has been accused of several things upthread, is the reference to an English GM with "a far worse reputation" intended to refer to a sexual predator or someone with another of (if what is written here is true) AR's failings?

[MJMcCready]

No but why should it be so surprising even if he is guilty?

[NickFaulks]

No but why should it be so surprising even if he is guilty?

Who has expressed surprise?

[LawrenceCooper]

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... -top-story

"His attorney, Al Watkins, said Ramirez “categorically denies the allegations” and is on administrative leave from SLU."

[Joseph Conlon]

But if we are being honest, what are the chances of him being the only titled player guilty of that charge.

What is your point?

I can think of a certain English GM with a far worse reputation than him, I'm sure you know who I mean. Unfortunately, some of us have seen him in action firsthand on that front, and more than once or twice.

The allegations here involve sexual abuse or assault of a minor and are not suitable for this sort of innuendo, willing to wound but afraid to strike. If you have seen this in action firsthand, report it to both the police and the ECF because safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility.

If you haven’t seen this, then don’t drop this sort of innuendo in here.

[Nick Burrows]

The allegations here involve sexual abuse or assault of a minor and are not suitable for this sort of innuendo, willing to wound but afraid to strike. If you have seen this in action firsthand, report it to both the police and the ECF because safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility.

If you haven’t seen this, then don’t drop this sort of innuendo in here.

Well said. Precisely.

[MJMcCready]

It's not just innuendo though. It's well known for a long time with certain individuals. As long as you judge them by their character and not their chess ability then there's nothing to worry about. Being titled doesn't grant you a certain prestige or exoneration away from the board, it doesn't mean anything away from the board. I just assumed it was common knowledge that all manner of things go on if you play in international tournaments. Seen it so many times, I just assumed everyone had. Alcohol and women are vices amongst many players, I just assumed it was common knowledge.

[MJMcCready]

I should, perhaps, add that the tournament I play in abroad most often is the Bangkok/Thai open, and it's been that way for nearly 15 years. I'm sure you know what Thailand is famous for right? So it should come as no surprise that many participants want a bit of a holiday as well and get up to all manner of things. No one does any harm, they just have a bit of a holiday as well. Even Aryan Tari in the last one took an early bye so he could could enjoy the location. It's quite normal and I don't want to name name's because no one is doing anything than having a bit of fun but the extent to which it goes on can be quite surprising, this is especially true with those from the former Soviet Union, and some of whom are barely able to make it to the end of the tournament. When players combine chess and holiday, it's quite normal to get caught up in one or two vices along the way I think. Seen it so many times, I've lost count,

[Roger Lancaster]

The allegations here involve sexual abuse or assault of a minor and are not suitable for this sort of innuendo, willing to wound but afraid to strike. If you have seen this in action firsthand, report it to both the police and the ECF because safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility.

If you haven’t seen this, then don’t drop this sort of innuendo in here.

Well said. Precisely.

I'm sorry, guys, but I'm not at all sure I agree. There's a separate thread on this forum about the late Brian Eley which includes the complaint that "No-one did anything about it". Similarly, part of Jennifer Shahade's narrative seems to be that Ramirez has been allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour for 10 years or more. I'm not immediately persuaded that a leading English player falls into a similar category but, statistically speaking, it's far from impossible. If, and I repeat if, that's the case I'd just as soon it came to light now rather than in 10 years time or after his death.

[MJMcCready]

Well it should be brought to light but to consider it as an isolated incident is a mistake I think. There's plenty of things going on behind closed doors. Like I said, the tournaments where people take holidays too are often classic examples. I've seen people fly half way round the world and not even make it out of their hotel or to round 1 due to certain vices taking a grip. It's a great shame but I just assumed it was part and parcel of the international scene. GM's are only human after all.

[Joseph Conlon]

Well it should be brought to light but to consider it as an isolated incident is a mistake I think. There's plenty of things going on behind closed doors. Like I said, the tournaments where people take holidays too are often classic examples. I've seen people fly half way round the world and not even make it out of their hotel or to round 1 due to certain vices taking a grip. It's a great shame but I just assumed it was part and parcel of the international scene. GM's are only human after all.

The allegations here involve sexually assaulting minors when someone is in a coaching relationship to them. If you have seen this, report it.

A casual adult relationship may be seedy but is not remotely comparable.

[Joseph Conlon]

The allegations here involve sexual abuse or assault of a minor and are not suitable for this sort of innuendo, willing to wound but afraid to strike. If you have seen this in action firsthand, report it to both the police and the ECF because safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility.

If you haven’t seen this, then don’t drop this sort of innuendo in here.

Well said. Precisely.

I'm sorry, guys, but I'm not at all sure I agree. There's a separate thread on this forum about the late Brian Eley which includes the complaint that "No-one did anything about it". Similarly, part of Jennifer Shahade's narrative seems to be that Ramirez has been allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour for 10 years or more. I'm not immediately persuaded that a leading English player falls into a similar category but, statistically speaking, it's far from impossible. If, and I repeat if, that's the case I'd just as soon it came to light now rather than in 10 years time or after his death.

Are we disagreeing? If someone has seen a leading English player ‘in action’ doing this, they should report him.

[Roger Lancaster]

Are we disagreeing? If someone has seen a leading English player ‘in action’ doing this, they should report him.

Joseph, there are several different offences mentioned in this thread, which means it's hard following who is referring to what, but I suspect we agree that - where impropriety toward minors is reasonably suspected - the ECF safeguarding officer should be the first point of call.

[Thomas Rendle]

I think we all agree on the correct course of action if you have first hand evidence of criminal behaviour.

The more difficult question is what to do with lots of second hand evidence of let's say 'sketchy' or 'creepy' behaviour. Naming them on a public forum wouldn't seem wise, but it still makes sense to warn players/officials/organisers etc. and to take appropriate action. There are players I would not want to invite to lecture at the club I'm on the committee for (in fact it was one of the reasons I joined the committee).