Portrayal of chess players in film and on television

[Alex Holowczak]

Just installed it. I'm surprised at how much faster it is than Firefox. ITV Player still doesn't work though... (I have Epiphany installed purely for using ITV Player). Has Ad Block Plus too! (Which is interesting, because it blocks Google's own advertising service...)

Found an extension which did vaguely what I wanted; it let me view the PDF online. But it wasn't really what I wanted; it opened it in another tab, and took an age to load.

[Alex Holowczak]

The overuse of pdf is infuriating in such cases, as few of us have pdf editors. A good example is the Norm Report Forms which I, along with many other arbiters, have to complete from time to time. They're only available in pdf on the FIDE website and there's been a massive duplication of effort as arbiters around the world have created their own Word templates.

Then just download one for free off the Internet?

[Adam Raoof]

I note a trend on the Forum, which is to simply complain about things publicly, when a few minutes (probably less time than it takes to write the original post) would solve the problem. You could just email the webmaster Andrew Walker and make your request, which usually works quickly depending on how much else he has on his list. Or you could dowlnoad the file yourself, and convert it to whatever you think is appropriate and post it here?

I have persuaded David to take up Google, and I will shortly introduce him to Google Docs, which solves most problems regarding compatibility. I would also recommend Open Office, which is free and can handle Word files.

I didn't even realise this fantastic resource existed. It's a great list - I once visited the home of a chess fan in Stockholm and his collection was even more extensive. The next step, of course, would be for someone to start putting clips of these on YouTube... that would publicise the Hastings National Chess Library. There are some really great programmes about the game on YouTube, such as this 1988 US programme about a Kasparov Clock Simul; see how many players you can spot!

http://www.youtube.com/user/duckgeezer# ... gHBFgyhGvg

[David Sedgwick]

I note a trend on the Forum, which is to simply complain about things publicly, when a few minutes (probably less time than it takes to write the original post) would solve the problem. You could just email the webmaster Andrew Walker and make your request, which usually works quickly depending on how much else he has on his list.

If John S had done as you suggest, Andrew W might have converted all the Word documents to html, which is the very thing I DON'T want him to do.

Surely discussion on this Forum, or in some other way, is useful to establish a consensus or at least a majority opinion.

Then just download one for free off the Internet?

Is it really possible to download a pdf editor for free? If so, many thanks for a really useful tip which has demonstrated the value of this Forum in a rather unexpected way. I'd always been under the impression that a pdf editor was a very expensive tool.

Can you recommend a link?

[Alex Holowczak]

Then just download one for free off the Internet?

Is it really possible to download a pdf editor for free? If so, many thanks for a really useful tip which has demonstrated the value of this Forum in a rather unexpected way. I'd always been under the impression that a pdf editor was a very expensive tool.

Can you recommend a link?

Well, I assume by a "PDF editor", you mean something to fill in forms. I.e. there are fields on a PDF where you can enter the information required.

Adobe Acrobat Reader handles that. Here's version 9: http://www.adobe.com/products/reader/

There are lots of them for Ubuntu, pdfedit springs to mind, but that won't work for you on Windows.

[John Saunders]

I do know for what the "p" stands and I've no objection to the use of pdf for what are essentially read only documents. My objection was to John Saunders's comment that everything should be in html.

However, John S himself says that Word is the most suitable when the end user has to complete a form. The overuse of pdf is infuriating in such cases, as few of us have pdf editors. A good example is the Norm Report Forms which I, along with many other arbiters, have to complete from time to time. They're only available in pdf on the FIDE website and there's been a massive duplication of effort as arbiters around the world have created their own Word templates.

David - you start by misquoting me ("everything should be in html") and then in the next para demonstrate that I didn't write that in the first place! You whom I've always admired as being even more pedantic than I am, too... Obviously there are things that make better downloads than web pages but I think the line on the ECF website is drawn in entirely the wrong place.

The page I referred to (Stewart's page about chess on DVDs) would be much better in HTML. This goes for much else that appears on the ECF website. Not everything, as I have already said. In some circumstances an RTF file might be appropriate. We have an RTF form for entrants to the Gib tournament at the Gib website. However, it might not be the "best" solution (I'm not sure I said that either!). As Gib webmaster I've not come up with a better solution yet but my feeling is there probably is one. An online form is obviously one, but I haven't been given sufficient autonomy over the website to implement such a solution. A PDF might be another although I would not want to put users to the trouble of looking for PDF editors online.

Re reading things offline: I rarely do this for the simple reason that, these days, I only use a computer which is connected to the internet. A computer without a live connection I find almost unusable. It is far too time-consuming to be saving lots of things to read later. I save links but rarely textual content.

[John Saunders]

I note a trend on the Forum, which is to simply complain about things publicly, when a few minutes (probably less time than it takes to write the original post) would solve the problem. You could just email the webmaster Andrew Walker and make your request, which usually works quickly depending on how much else he has on his list.

If John S had done as you suggest, Andrew W might have converted all the Word documents to html, which is the very thing I DON'T want him to do.

Surely discussion on this Forum, or in some other way, is useful to establish a consensus or at least a majority opinion.

Ironically, though David and I disagree on the substantive point at issue (use of Word files on the ECF website), he and I are in complete agreement about the raising of such issues on the forum. What Adam calls a "complaint", I call an observation, with which others may disagree. It so happens that someone does disagree (David!). Democracy in action...

[Adam Raoof]

David: Portable Document Format files are used because the ability to read those files is more or less universal AND the files are specifically intended to be non-editable, and Word documents can carry macros (small executable programs) that can bring viruses to your computer.

In other words, you should not be able to edit a pdf file. Of course, you can. What software you then use to do that depends on what you want to do with the resulting edited file.

I have used Foxit, NItroPdf, and others. I can only say that Google Docs is the most easy to use reader and can convert most other files (not pdf I think) you upload into a format you can edit. Then you can save it in any format you need, including turning it into a pdf file!

John: I wasn't aiming my comment at anyone in particular (I think the trend carries right across the forum), and I actually agree with you about the use of Word documents. However, I can tell you that the webmaster does not read this Forum, so if you really want change, be kind enough to give him the chance to make you happier by dealing with him directly.

[John Saunders]

John: I wasn't aiming my comment at anyone in particular (I think the trend carries right across the forum), and I actually agree with you about the use of Word documents. However, I can tell you that the webmaster does not read this Forum, so if you really want change, be kind enough to give him the chance to make you happier by dealing with him directly.

Yes, but as David has already said, that might have meant that Andrew amended the ECF website without reference to dissenting views. If I spot something that I know to be factually wrong on the ECF website, I might well write directly to Andrew, but where I am not sure of my ground, or it is a matter of opinion or debate, or perhaps a question of design, surely it is worth raising here first. We have a number of people with considerable IT experience here and I like to get their view or corroboration. If a consensus comes of such a debate, presumably you can then pass on the 'feelings of the meeting' to Andrew.

[Adam Raoof]

John - so when you said

The page I referred to (Stewart's page about chess on DVDs) would be much better in HTML. This goes for much else that appears on the ECF website.

were you sure of your ground or weren't you? Your original post said...

The ECF website link would be more useful if one didn't have to download an MS Word file. Can someone ask the ECF webmaster to put the file into HTML? Actually, the same applies to many other links on the ECF site.

...which did not sound like the start of a debate. Why not just say 'does anyone else think that...?' Why couldn't you email the webmaster with such a request?

As I said, I agree with you. But not everyone reads this Forum, and will be aware of the debate.

[John Saunders]

John - so when you said

The page I referred to (Stewart's page about chess on DVDs) would be much better in HTML. This goes for much else that appears on the ECF website.

were you sure of your ground or weren't you?

I was being a bit lazy as I didn't check but it was certainly true of the recent past that quite a lot of stuff goes up as Word files and it may still be true today. The basic point is that I don't like having to download things to read and worry about viruses and what-not. The point seems to have been backed up by some of our resident IT pundits. But it is no big deal - if the ECF prefers to go on posting things in Word files, in deference to ECF officials and others who prefer it that way, that is absolutely fine. I can always exercise my prerogative not to bother reading them.

I sense a degree of defensiveness about comments made on the forum about the ECF website. Perhaps that is borne of previous unhappy experiences but I like to think my comments in this direction have been generally constructive and I haven't seen anything in this particular thread which should offend anyone.

[David Sedgwick]

In other words, you should not be able to edit a pdf file. Of course, you can. What software you then use to do that depends on what you want to do with the resulting edited file..

I mentioned a specific example. I want to be able to download blank Norm Report Forms from the FIDE website and complete them with details of norms obtained.

I now have my own Word templates for these forms. They are a bit rough and ready, but they serve their purpose.

[Roger de Coverly]

David: Portable Document Format files are used because the ability to read those files is more or less universal AND the files are specifically intended to be non-editable,

Congress entry forms are best done in pdf because word documents don't always print consistently on printers other than the designers' particularly when graphics such as logos or maps are included. Open Office includes as standard drivers to create pdf files - does Microsoft Office?

[Carl Hibbard]

Open Office includes as standard drivers to create pdf files - does Microsoft Office?

There might be an add in but it never used to as standard without some sort of third party software - but how many people can afford to 'legally' buy it?

[Ian Kingston]

Open Office includes as standard drivers to create pdf files - does Microsoft Office?

There might be an add in but it never used to as standard without some sort of third party software - but how many people can afford to 'legally' buy it?

There are free PDF creators available, so practically anyone can create PDF files from any application. For Windows, gDoc Creator (http://www.globalgraphics.com/en/gdoc/) is very good. From my limited experience with Linux I seem to recall that PDF creation is straightforward on that platform. And Wikipedia informs me that it's a built-in feature in Mac OS X.

MS Word (or any proprietary format) is a poor choice for distributing files like congress entry forms. As has already been pointed out, Word files have a tendency to reformat themselves on different systems, depending on what fonts are used, default printer drivers, page sizes or the phase of the Moon (or so it sometimes seems).