Chess Cafe Culture

[Justin Hadi]

I was of course joking as well.

[Jon D'Souza-Eva]

‘The problem with you Clive is that you’re not as good as you think you ought to be.’ (Sandys Dickinson).

Any idea what happened to Sandys? Does he still play chess?

[CliveHill]

Re. Sandys.

A very good question Jon. Probably better off asking under the Centymca thread where people like Daryl Taylor and John Upham have been spotted. I imagine they are more likely to know what SD is up to these days.

He was a very wise man and that remark that he made to me many years ago stuck in my head and it raises all sorts of questions about competition versus enjoyment; sport versus art etc. Nowadays I'm completely in the latter camp. I was literally singing with happiness on my way to the Staunton Memorial 13 months ago. What a shame it was cancelled this year!

Roll on the London Classic in December!

[Paul McKeown]

Re. Sandys.

A very good question Jon. Probably better off asking under the Centymca thread where people like Daryl Taylor and John Upham have been spotted. I imagine they are more likely to know what SD is up to these days.

He was a member of the Athenaeum Chess Club for a long time, until shortly before my time. Simon Spivack will know more...

[Jon D'Souza-Eva]

I'm pretty sure he played for Hackney as well. I'm still in touch with George Szaszvari (*) and he seemed to know Sandys quite well. I'll try asking him.

(*) George was the first person I knew who met his wife-to-be via the internet. Now it seems that almost everyone meets their partner online.

[Simon Spivack]

George and Sandys go back to at least 1971, when Bayswater Chess Club was London's most bohemian. Note that the "y" in "Sandys" is silent.

I doubt that George has kept in touch with Sandys. He left for the States when Sandys was not on the Internet. George, when I last checked, had given up chess for shooting. If, as John Saunders once remarked, chess players are would be regicides, then George has become more catholic in what he hunts. I hope he doesn't whistle Stars and Stripes Forever whilst doing so.

It is good to see you posting on these fora, Clive. It's been a long time. Sandys left London more than a decade ago. I should have buried somewhere two telephone numbers that worked in the 90s. If you want I'll see if I can find them and forward to you by private message. I can't promise that they work.

I may play devil's advocate on the café idea in a future post.

[CliveHill]

Hi Simon!

Thanks for the info. The last time we met was very briefly in the street in Holborn in the early 1990s; you said you were writing a novel. I was living the dubious life of an untenured academic!!

Any info about Sandys gratefully received. Private message ok; must remember to put more stuff on my profile.

Would love to talk to you about chess cafes; what a shame there isn't one to host the conversation!

C

[JonManley]

There are photos of street chess in the US at http://www.kingpinchess.net/?p=2084#more-2084

[Jon D'Souza-Eva]

I doubt that George has kept in touch with Sandys.

I've just received a reply from George and you are correct, he hasn't heard from Sandys since he (George) moved to America.

George did mention that Sandys was friendly with Pierre Lunais, but I think Pierre died about five years ago.

[Simon Spivack]

I'm saddened to read this. Pierre was a very amiable chap. Too soft for this world. As I recall, having lived in London for aeons, he returned to France when given the news that his mother had died there. He was greatly affected. This must have been more than twenty years in the past.

[Jon D'Souza-Eva]

I didn't hear anything of Pierre's death at the time, but found out about about a year ago. It's mentioned in this Westminster School newsletter:
http://www.oldwestminster.org.uk/NetCom ... .Doc?id=11

Chess
Under School chess teams have been revitalised this year under the guidance of our new Head of French, Pascal Evans, and Pierre Lunais. The under-9, under-11 and under-14 teams reached the finals of the national schools championships – the first time we had entered the competition.

At the end of the summer holiday, however, we were saddened to learn of the death of Pierre Lunais, our after-school chess coach, who has taught Under School pupils for many years. He had not been in the best of health for some time, but his passing came as a shock to everyone.

[John Foley]

The chess café concept has been proved commercially unviable in modern times in London and Paris. It worked in days gone by because the world was so different. People could linger, they were not connected into a global communications network, and City centre retail costs were relatively lower.

The Troubadour in Earls Court was a great place to go with an enthusiastic core of regulars each afternoon. They were positioned at the front of house which made the place more interesting for tourists and passers by. The patrons were largely cosmopolitan with finely dressed types reading books or newspapers in languages other than English. The Troubadour was always trendy and jazz bands played downstairs in the evenings. It was too perfect to last.

At the other end of the chess café economic spectrum, I used to go to Polly Magoo on the Rue Saint Jacques in Paris in the 1970s. It was minimalist (some would say sleazy) but had the three basics - a record player, draught beer and chess sets. Cheap, it was the haunt of assorted students from the Sorbonne augmented by the Latin Quarter demi-monde. It survived for years.

The problem for the Troubadour was success. The place next door was acquired and it doubled in size. The chess players were given the heave ho. The intellectual patina provided by the chess players was welcomed for a while, but the space taken up could not be justified.

The same issue confronts pubs hosting chess e.g. the former Kings Head in Queensway. The Drunken Knights sociability at the Plough in Bloomsbury is an exception. Our local chess club in Kingston was eventually made unwelcome at our former pub venue because the players did not spend enough. The publican was clear that they are in business to make profits not run a community service. Many of the players are retired or not working or teetotallers. There will always be a problem with chess players paying their way in catering or licensed premises. Those with the time to attend may not be in employment and so need to control expenditure. Further, players can submerge into a trance-like condition without the benefit of alcohol.

Comparisons with other games may provide some insights. Poker has its own solution because it is a gambling game. The players contribute to the house. There have been attempts to enlist chess into poker clubs to get around statutory licensing restrictions and more may happen on this front. Whether this is right for chess is another issue. Bridge clubs focus on an older and wealthier demographic that can afford to cover the costs of the premises, although the number of clubs is dwindling.

The London Chess Centre is a great place to buy chess sets and books, software etc, but does not offer playing facilities. There were two chess shops, now reduced to one, in London. It would have been easy to create a coffee flavoured version of a chess shop, but it would not pay the rent. Especially when there are cheap and cheerful coffee shops all along Baker Street.

Not all is lost. There is a thriving (non-chess) board game community (London on Board) which meets weekly at a City pub. This is in the catchment area for the career-oriented games players. They have money and they will buy dinner. Similarly, chess in the London League is more vibrant than the suburban leagues.

I believe that there is a better case to be made for (a) having a strategy games centre (b) with training courses and (c) catering. Multiplayer games would be encouraged. Rather than a hotbed of competition, there would be chilled out but sporting atmosphere. Making it a membership-only club is likely to be self-defeating as it would restrict casual attenders and deter those whose presence is more valuable in a sporting context. Revenues would come from hourly board fees, optional training fees and catering. Such places already exist - many pubs offer a variety of games. Yet they do not succeed. The key difference is the presence of expert games players to give credibility (chess lessons anyone?), to supervise play and to engage with patrons. The best solution may be to have an arrangement with a pub chain which is prepared to theme a pub for games playing.

[CliveHill]

Thanks for your input John. There are certainly many different pros and cons to be taken into account. The other bits of my life have not been going entirely smoothly (when do they ever?) ... so progress has been slow.

I had indeed thought of the Baker Street area because of the proximity of the LCC. However, I was concerned about being in the congestion zone, so my initial preference was somewhere just north of BS in the Regent's Park area. Hoping to catch up with a friend in the catering trade on Friday to talk over some more options.

All the best,

C

[Adam Raoof]

Thanks for your input John. There are certainly many different pros and cons to be taken into account. The other bits of my life have not been going entirely smoothly (when do they ever?) ... so progress has been slow.

I had indeed thought of the Baker Street area because of the proximity of the LCC. However, I was concerned about being in the congestion zone, so my initial preference was somewhere just north of BS in the Regent's Park area. Hoping to catch up with a friend in the catering trade on Friday to talk over some more options.

All the best,

C

We could make it a real London Chess Centre, if you find a venue big enough. In Belgium some clubs have their own premises (e.g. Ghent) and can therefore host tournaments. One of the advantages is never having to put the equipment away at the end of a event! Add enough space for 50 to 100 players and decent coffee and you have the makings of a gathering place for players.

[CliveHill]

This is virtually the same post that I just placed in the Centymca thread, where the subject was mentioned.

"How Bohemian is your Chess (Cafe)"?

Just to let people know that the chess cafe idea is on the back burner at present (a) because the catering contact I was hoping to work with has dropped out and (b) because I am still juggling my life as an untenured academic (think FM with a relatively low rating) which is always 'hairy' at this time of year. New terms, new students etc.

Hoping to start working for Chess in Schools and Communities in the new year as a means of adding to the dubious income I receive from my 'portfolio career' - hate that euphemism! - so if I finally get my life straight in 2011 I will hope to start making new moves on the cafe front at that point.

All the best,

Clive