A team winning two matches on the same night

[Andrew Bak]

In the Calderdale Evening League, my team, Hebden Bridge "A" played two matches on the same night. One was a scheduled fixture and the other was a rearranged fixture, winning both. You can read more about it here.

I was wondering if other people have come across something similar or if this is a unique achievement?

[Brian Towers]

In the Calderdale Evening League, my team, Hebden Bridge "A" played two matches on the same night. One was a scheduled fixture and the other was a rearranged fixture, winning both. You can read more about it here.

A bit of an anticlimax reading the report. I was expecting your 5 players to each play a 2-man simul .

Maybe next time?

[David Blower]

Brewood often schedule 2 different teams on the same night, but never the same team.

I can't ever remember us winning both matches on the same evening.

[Richard Bates]

Due to fixture congestion once played in a league match as a double header. Half the team didn't turn up and were defaulted which therefore added a couple of penalty match points to the inevitable match loss to complete a really successful evening!

[Andrew Bak]

In the Calderdale Evening League, my team, Hebden Bridge "A" played two matches on the same night. One was a scheduled fixture and the other was a rearranged fixture, winning both. You can read more about it here.

A bit of an anticlimax reading the report. I was expecting your 5 players to each play a 2-man simul .

Maybe next time?

We might have to try it!

The rules for the Bradford league would actually forbid playing a simul on the same night, I don't know about Calderdale though!

[Eric Gardiner]

I'd assumed that the second match had started late, say 11pm, as soon as the first had finished with the same players! After reading the report it does seem that you at least had plenty of time to start a second game Andy ?

[Stewart Reuben]

Cavendish in London normally play two matches on the same night, but in different divisions.
It used to be allowed that one person could play two games simultaneouasly in the London League. I did it once. I had an adjourned game and it took place where my club, Islington, was playing. We were one player short and our captain asked me to step in and play both games. Both players were very cooperative. I drew both. This is now not allowed in the FIDE Laws of Chess. Article 11.3a
During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.

For the purpose of the Laws, analyse is defined as: Where one or more players make moves on a board to try to determine what is the best continuation.

[Brian Towers]

Cavendish in London normally play two matches on the same night, but in different divisions.
It used to be allowed that one person could play two games simultaneouasly in the London League. I did it once. I had an adjourned game and it took place where my club, Islington, was playing. We were one player short and our captain asked me to step in and play both games. Both players were very cooperative. I drew both. This is now not allowed in the FIDE Laws of Chess. Article 11.3a
During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.

For the purpose of the Laws, analyse is defined as: Where one or more players make moves on a board to try to determine what is the best continuation.

Hmmm. That raises the stakes somewhat.

So, you would be allowed to play two (FIDE rated) games at the same time as long as you played blindfold?

What about games which are ECF rated but not FIDE rated? Does the ECF allow slacker versions of FIDE rules for its competitions?

[Stewart Reuben]

Brian - Most English non-FIDE Rated events state something like, played according to the FIDE Laws of Chess, unless amended hereunder.

Of course blindfold games don't fit the Laws of Chess. The very first sentence in the introduction states: The FIDE Laws of Chess cover over-the-board play. (I introduced that)
The Laws could be changed to include: blindfold, electronic, correspondence chess, etc. But currently they don't.

[Brian Towers]

Of course blindfold games don't fit the Laws of Chess. The very first sentence in the introduction states: The FIDE Laws of Chess cover over-the-board play.

I'm sorry, I don't buy that.

Suppose a blind player chooses to play without the usual peg-board. In other words, the only real difference between him and most blindfold players is that he really can't see. Does that mean his game doesn't count as an otb FIDE rated game? He's not allowed to play for county or 4NCL side because he's outside the FIDE regulations? Doesn't make sense to me.

My original point was that a player playing two league games blindfold is within the FIDE rules because he is not even using a first board let alone a second one to help him analyze.

[Stewart Reuben]

Brin.
You are just looking for unusual situations, rather than normal ones. No, a player playing two, or more games blindfold simultaneously is not within the FIDE Laws. If you want to change the laws for next time to overcome this 'problem' be my guest. Games played by blind players are within the Laws because they say so. Look at Appendix D.

[Roger de Coverly]

It's interesting that Stewart considers the prohibition of playing two games at once to be within the Laws. Is this a relatively recent change?

After a practical case around twenty or twenty five years ago, a local league introduced a rule which says

No player shall be allowed to play two games, simultaneous or otherwise, in one match This would not preclude a named player, whose opponent was known to be defaulting, from playing for another of his club’s teams on the same night.

The simultaneous or otherwise wording arose from a county match in around the same era where one of the opposition players drew very quickly and then asked whether he could also substitute for a missing player if said player had still not arrived before the default time. I forget the outcome, either the late player eventually arrived or a spectator present as a parent was pressed into action.

Perhaps we no longer need this rule, but is there anything in the Laws of Chess precluding someone finishing quickly and then becoming a substitute? I'd suspect not and it would at the level of competition rules that it was excluded. Elsewhere recently in a League which is a double round rapid play for teams of four, the match captains of teams that were mostly or exclusively juniors agreed that all potential eight games would be played, rather than just six when one of the teams only had three players present.

[Stewart Reuben]

Roger>It's interesting that Stewart considers the prohibition of playing two games at once to be within the Laws. Is this a relatively recent change? <

I wonder if you have become tangled in double negatives? 2 games at once are prohibited by the Laws.
I gave the relevant current Law, but am repeating it here: During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.
It used to say: During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse on another chessboard.

A player concludes a game very rapidly in a team competition. His team has a looming default on another board in the sme competition. So he steps in and plays before the default time. Could both those games be FIDE Rated? I think so. Could the second one count in that team competition? Certainly not. Do the rules actually preclude it? Probably not.
If you want to tighten up the rules to preclude such an absurdity - be my guest.

[Roger de Coverly]

I wonder if you have become tangled in double negatives? 2 games at once are prohibited by the Laws.

I think my point was as to whether they always have been. As an away match captain I detected that our opponents had utilised the layout of their venue so that one of their players was both playing in a side room and also in the main hall. The matches were in separate leagues. In the event, I pushed through a rule change at the subsequent AGM to outlaw this, but would it have been contrary to the Laws of Chess at the time, being around twenty five years ago?

[Stewart Reuben]

Roger >I pushed through a rule change at the subsequent AGM to outlaw this, but would it have been contrary to the Laws of Chess at the time, being around twenty five years ago?<
One would have to research the Laws of 1990 to determine that. Although I was an IA at the time, I didn't become the secretary of the Rules Commission until 1994. I do remember thinking of discussing with Geurt Gijssen whether somebody should be permitted to play two separate games at the same time. I decided not to bother because it would have been so alien to his way of thinking. Now the most recent edition of the laws is clearer. Does it matter whether it was always outlawed? Clearly, even if so, it was allowed in the London League.