Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

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Richard Bates
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:15 pm

I don't see why a verbal acknowledgement is necessary - if any thing it might cause misunderstanding. I usually just record it on the scoresheet - unless I have no interest in accepting in which case I might say I'll think about it... :wink:

Anyway worthwhile relaying an anecdote from Keith's new book:

Arkell: "draw?"

Hebden (looking around): "where?"

:)

David Blower
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by David Blower » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:51 am

Various responses from me if I'm declining include: "Not yet!" "Lets play it out" or "Lets play a few more moves" or "Its got interesting now, so no!"

Strangely enough hardly ever a "no" with a one word answer. Although the one word answer for
"yes" has certainly been said.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:47 am

I do recall a club colleague being offered several draws in quick succession in a league match and the responses were, "no thank you", then "no", then "NO", then, "I don't want a bloody draw - I'm winning easily!" His opponent went bright red, especially when the other 18 players in the match crowded round the board, to confirm that indeed it was an easy win. I think in the circumstances that the responses were not a breach of etiquette.
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:52 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:I do recall a club colleague being offered several draws in quick succession in a league match and the responses were, "no thank you", then "no", then "NO", then, "I don't want a bloody draw - I'm winning easily!" His opponent went bright red, especially when the other 18 players in the match crowded round the board, to confirm that indeed it was an easy win. I think in the circumstances that the responses were not a breach of etiquette.
Oh, massive breaches of etiquette (chess and non-chess) on both sides, but that makes a great story! :D

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Barry Sandercock » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:57 am

How about when the opponent offers a draw when it is his turn to move as has happened to me recently ? Should one say " make your move first " or say " I'll think about it " and sit there till his clock runs out !

Paul McKeown
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Paul McKeown » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:04 am

LOL! Try both!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:06 am

barry sandercock wrote:How about when the opponent offers a draw when it is his turn to move as has happened to me recently ? Should one say " make your move first " or say " I'll think about it " and sit there till his clock runs out !
If you don't really want a draw or aren't sure, you ask him to move. The draw offer remains valid even after he's moved, so he doesn't lose anything by moving while you think about the offer.

If you are quite desperate to draw because of the game position or a match score, then you accept an illegal offer, such as one made whilst it's your move.

Wasn't this all hammered out around 1951 when Bronstein objected to Botvinnik's frequent draw offers whilst Bronstein himself was thinking?

Mike Gunn
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Mike Gunn » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:51 am

Although acknowledging a draw offer verbally is unnecessary it has the advantage that it confirms that the offer was heard and undertood. I have observed both of the following take place:

1) Player A has a forced win. Player B mumbles something (not clear). The players shake hands. Player A records the results as 1-0 whereas Player B records the result as a draw. (When the discrepancy was noticed by the captains Player A demonstrates the win and Player B resigns so not exactly a problem, but it could have been).

2) After winning the game Player A says "you should have accepted the draw I offered on move X!". Player B says "I didn't hear you offer a draw - I would have accepted it!"

My observation is that only a minority of players record the draw offer on their scoresheets (the way they are supposed to under the laws).

kishanpattni
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by kishanpattni » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:00 pm

The scenario I most hate encountering (and have witnessed only too often!) is when your losing or down in a game positionally whilst your opponent is potentially lost on time and they offer you a draw. It can be a lose lose situation for me. If I accept then I'm likely to walk away regretfully (knowing a win was within my grasp). However if I play on I'm likely to feel guilt of robbing my opponent or face the possible bitter reactions of my opponent.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:08 pm

kishanpattni wrote:The scenario I most hate encountering (and have witnessed only too often!) is when your losing or down in a game positionally whilst your opponent is potentially lost on time and they offer you a draw.
It could depend whether it's the first time control or the quick-play finish. If you decline a draw on the first time control, you are gambling that your opponent won't find enough decent moves quickly enough to reach the safe haven of the first time control. If it's the quick-play finish, by agreeing a draw you implicitly concede their 10.2 claim.

Steve Rooney
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Steve Rooney » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:50 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:Although acknowledging a draw offer verbally is unnecessary it has the advantage that it confirms that the offer was heard and undertood. I have observed both of the following take place:

1) Player A has a forced win. Player B mumbles something (not clear). The players shake hands. Player A records the results as 1-0 whereas Player B records the result as a draw. (When the discrepancy was noticed by the captains Player A demonstrates the win and Player B resigns so not exactly a problem, but it could have been).

2) After winning the game Player A says "you should have accepted the draw I offered on move X!". Player B says "I didn't hear you offer a draw - I would have accepted it!"

My observation is that only a minority of players record the draw offer on their scoresheets (the way they are supposed to under the laws).
Indeed. We had a notable case in a league match a couple of season ago when a player didn't acknowledge a draw offer. He was down on material, but went on to win in the time scramble. After the game he was surprised to hear that he had turned down a draw. He said he would have accepted it but had not heard a thing due to the earplugs he uses while playing, which rather rubbed salt in the wound of the draw offerer.

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Jon Mahony
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Jon Mahony » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:25 pm

If I want / believe the position to be a draw, I usually grab the extended hand immediately with a smile on my face, as I am grateful to my opponent, that he has saved us 20 more moves and an hour of pub time - if its been a tough struggle that’s petered out, I don’t believe in trying to psych my opponent out into thinking he’s really twisting my arm - and few would have to do that! :D

If I believe I’m winning I will politely say “Let’s see what happens for a few moves” - repeated offers get a sharper “No thanks”.

I remember one time in the Bradford League, I was playing a rather snooty 145 who would sort of give a knowing side smile and move instantaneously after my move, which I was spending about 5-10 minutes on, once we were in the middle game.

We eventually got to a perfectly even Rook, Bishop and pawn ending, I offered a draw, he gave me a look which I would have expected to see if I’d just suggested he cut his testicles off with a rusty bread knife, and moved his Rook instantly - unfortunately for him, he placed it right in front of my Bishop and it was duly snapped off, he looked up from the board, wide eyed and with desperation in his voice said “Still want that draw?!” I was guilty of raising an eyebrow and giving a rather sarcastic “I think I’ll play on” :lol: - I went on to create a passed pawn and won in short order, it’s one of my favourite moments in chess.
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Joey Stewart
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Joey Stewart » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:42 pm

I find that I rarely get offered a draw in a drawn position ( usually I have some sort of positional advantage worth squeezing them for and they are trying to bail out) so tend not to 'think about' the first one and then not bother afterwards until I deem the game worth drawing.

there are, of course, exceptions to this - such as if I am feeling tired or ill and will tend to try getting away with draw offers when I feel I am doing ok on the board, to try and encourage them. It rarely seems to work, and more often then not they spend 20-30 minutes scouring the position for the tactic they believe me to have seen that will win them the game outright (why else would he offer a draw in such a position, they are thinking).
Lose one queen and it is a disaster, Lose 1000 queens and it is just a statistic.

John Moore
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by John Moore » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:45 pm

I generally like to play move 1 - then give it a go!

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Greg Breed
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Re: Etiquette when reacting to draw offers

Post by Greg Breed » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:32 pm

I only offer a draw if I believe the position is a theoretical draw. However I will consider draw offers on their merits. The most difficult I think is when one player is short on time but has a better position. There's a moral point to that one. I find it gentlemanly to accept a draw if I am worse but ahead on time (most likely). In a sense I have managed my time better, but they have managed the board better... Two sides to the game.

When dealing with draw offers I make a note on my scoresheet with the = sign.
If it is my move I think about it. If I require a long think I will say "I'll think about it".
If it's their move I say "I'll wait for your move then decide".
If I want to agree a draw I offer my hand and usually say "good game" or "I accept". Perhaps I might need to be more specific in future as I did have one unfortunate episode.
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