R and B v R

[John Moore]

Yet another IM shows that he has no idea how to defend this and he had 10 minutes so he wasn't short of time. Galyas v Medvegy in the Budesliga today - someone brighter than me will do a link.

[Andrew Bak]

Yet another IM shows that he has no idea how to defend this and he had 10 minutes so he wasn't short of time. Galyas v Medvegy in the Budesliga today - someone brighter than me will do a link.

[Event "Schachbundesliga 2012/2013"] [Date "2013.04.07"] [Round "15.6"] [Board "6"] [White "Galyas, Miklos"] [Black "Medvegy, Zoltan"] [Result "0-1"] [WhiteClock "00:08:58"] [BlackClock "00:07:35"] [WhiteElo "2423"] [BlackElo "2561"] [WhiteClub "SG Trier 1877"] [BlackClub "SC Eppingen"] [PlyCount "174"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. e3 b6 4. Bd3 Bb7 5. O-O Be7 6. c4 c5 7. Nc3 d5 8. cxd5 Nxd5 9. Bb5+ Bc6 10. Qa4 Qd7 11. Nxd5 Bxb5 12. Qxb5 exd5 13. Qxd7+ Kxd7 14. Bd2 Nc6 15. dxc5 bxc5 16. Rfd1 Ke6 17. Rac1 Rhc8 18. Rc2 a5 19. Bc3 f6 20. Rcd2 Rd8 21. Ne1 g5 22. g3 Ra7 23. Kf1 Nb4 24. b3 Nc6 25. f4 a4 26. bxa4 Rxa4 27. Rb1 gxf4 28. gxf4 Ra3 29. Rb6 Rxc3 30. Rxc6+ Rd6 31. Rxd6+ Bxd6 32. Ke2 d4 33. exd4 Bxf4 34. Rd3 cxd4 35. Rxd4 Kf5 36. a4 Re3+ 37. Kf2 Ra3 38. Ng2 Bxh2 39. Rb4 Bg3+ 40. Ke2 Kg5 41. Ne3 h5 42. Rb5+ Be5 43. a5 Ra4 44. Rc5 h4 45. Rc8 Kg6 46. Rg8+ Kf7 47. Rh8 Bg3 48. Ra8 Bf4 49. Kf3 Bg5 50. Nf1 Ra3+ 51. Kg4 Ra4+ 52. Kh3 Kg6 53. a6 Kf5 54. a7 Ra2 55. Nh2 Ra3+ 56. Kg2 Ra2+ 57. Kf3 Ra3+ 58. Ke2 Kf4 59. Nf1 Ra2+ 60. Kd3 Kf3 61. Nh2+ Kg3 62. Nf1+ Kg2 63. Ne3+ Kf3 64. Nd5 Ra3+ 65. Kc4 Kf2 66. Nc3 h3 67. Rh8 Rxa7 68. Rxh3 f5 69. Rh5 Rg7 70. Nd5 f4 71. Nxf4 Bxf4 72. Kd5 Kf3 73. Rh3+ Bg3 74. Rh8 Rd7+ 75. Kc4 Ke4 76. Re8+ Be5 77. Kc5 Rc7+ 78. Kb6 Rc2 79. Kb5 Kd5 80. Rd8+ Bd6 81. Rh8 Rb2+ 82. Ka4 Bc5 83. Rh5+ Kc4 84. Rh4+ Bd4 85. Ka3 Rb1 86. Rh2 Rb7 87. Rc2+ Bc3 0-1

The position until 82...Bc5 is apparently drawn, White had to find 83.Rh4 or 83.Rh1.

[Roger de Coverly]

Yet another IM shows that he has no idea how to defend this and he had 10 minutes so he wasn't short of time. Galyas v Medvegy in the Budesliga today

http://bundesliga.liveschach.net/?lang=en and click on the match Trier - Eppingen

The game has auto annotations by Houdini, using a tablebase presumably. On move 83 Rh5+ is shown as a losing error, with 83. Rh1 indicated as level. I'm not sure I would know why. Before that Houdini makes no claim of an advantage.

[John Moore]

I hesitate to say it's obvious. Roger

[Jonathan Bryant]

Yet another IM shows that he has no idea how to defend this and he had 10 minutes so he wasn't short of time. Galyas v Medvegy in the Budesliga today ....

Thanks for the tip-off - and thanks to Andrew for uploading the game.

I think 'no idea' and 'wasn't short of time' is a bit harsh. 10 minutes doesn't strike me as a huge amount of time to play 50 moves. Are there increments in the Bundesliga? That would make a difference of course. If not, how would he ever claim a draw?

Also, to my not especially expert eye, it looks like White's trying to get a Cochrane position but never quite making it. E.g. if it was his move before Black played 82 ... Rb2+ he could play 82 Rh5+ Be5, 83 Rg5 and everything's tickety boo.

I'm guessing he played 83 Rh5+ because it looks like he's getting something like a cochrane but Black is one file nearer.

A while back Nigel Short wrote an article about a 2600 GM messing up a Vancura draw in which he says the guy probably knew what he was supposed to be aiming for but not well enough to be able to deliver when the pressure was on. Perhaps something like that is going on here?

That said, I agree that the starting position is far from the least favourable you could imagine for White and I'm sure IMs could do more difficult stuff than this in ten minutes.



(more in a bit)

[Jonathan Bryant]

The position until 82...Bc5 is apparently drawn, White had to find 83.Rh4 or 83.Rh1.

The trouble with Tablebase (massively useful training tool though it is) is that not all draws are created equal. I remember Short in the article I mentioned above saying something like

"this doesn't lose but it's a step in the wrong direction".

I dare say it's still a theoretical draw until move 82 but if you haven't got tablebase installed in your head that doesn't mean so much for a human. The real problem, it seems to me, is that White never managed to effectively cut off the Black king.

So, right at the start, why not 72 Rd5 instead, cutting off on the d-file? Then perhaps something like

72 ... Ke3, 73 Rd8 Rc7+, 74 Kb5 Ke4, 75 Rd1 Be3, 76 Rd8 Bd4, 77 Rg8 Kd5, 78 Rg5+ Be5, 79 Rh5 and there's your Cochrane

If you are going to go to d5 with the king why not follow up with 73 Ke6 trying to cut off on the 5th rank?

Similarly, in the game why not 77 Rg8 intending (or at least hoping for) ... Rc7+, 78 Kb5 Kd5, 79 Rg5? Or if


Disclaimer:
(a) i stand to be corrected
(b)72 Rd5 and 77 Rg8 are what came to mind when I first played through the game. I had the advantage of not having just been playing chess for several hours and the only pressure on me was choosing between a Custard tart and chocolate chip cookie to go with my tea. Since then I've been able to come home and work out a couple of specific lines by shoving the pieces around.

[Richard Bates]

Yet another IM shows ...

Well we can't know everything...!

[Jonathan Bryant]

Well we can't know everything...!

The reason I really like stories like these - aside from the schadenfreude, I mean - is that what you say is obviously true. And if it's true for folk rated 50 ECF higher than me then it must be even more true for those rated 20-30 ECF above me. People against whom I'd be very happy to get a result, that is.

It gives me hope.

[Simon Ansell]

Some IMs know how to draw this endgame (more by luck than judgement)

[Roger de Coverly]

Some IMs know how to draw this endgame (more by luck than judgement)

The stalemate trick of putting the Rook en prise to the Bishop is always the spectacular way to defend. Reaching that position in the first place could be the problem.

[Simon Ansell]

Some IMs know how to draw this endgame (more by luck than judgement)

The stalemate trick of putting the Rook en prise to the Bishop is always the spectacular way to defend. Reaching that position in the first place could be the problem.

To be honest that's the only feature of the position I am/was aware of (hence more luck than judgement)! Vs. Keith I would estimate my chances of holding at no more than 5%

Edit: Maybe I'm not giving myself enough credit, according to Wikipedia, "Tony Kosten has seen the endgame many times in master games, with the stronger side almost always winning (Kosten 1987:11)".

[JustinHorton]

I never knew Tony Kosten's midle name was Cornelis.