Fischer Number

[David Williams]

I appreciate it's only a bit of fun, but it does have rules. Do all casual games count, or only ones that establish the MN1's? It seems that way, except for "On April 28, 1938, 8-year-old Melvin Chernev (Irving's son), played a game against Emanuel Lasker (MN2) when the great man visited the Chernevs' home." in one of the links above. If that sort of thing counts I think it rather reduces the fun, because it's all rather unverifiable. In any case, I suspect that once you get to MN4 or MN5 most people will have several routes, and it's much more satisfying to have it via wins in proper games.

[John Saunders]

Also ARB Thomas? He was active when I was at Exeter University in the early 1980s and he must have been pushing 80 then. I recall him telling me he played at Hastings before WW2.

Yes, ARB Thomas was definitely a '3', as was Frank Parr, a prolific player whom lots of us will have played, right up until the early 2000s. My earlier list of '3's was not meant to be definitive; I left out lesser-known names. Anyone who played competitive chess in open events in England in the 1980s and 1990s must have a strong chance of a '4' status.

[Matt Mackenzie]

In that case I am already a #4, as the late Joe Soesan (who I played twice, both draws) lost to Parr in the 1959 championships.

Come to that, didn't Frank Parr play at a British well into old age (and scored a very respectable result)?

[Roger de Coverly]

Come to that, didn't Frank Parr play at a British well into old age (and scored a very respectable result)?

It looks as if his final British Championship was at Eastbourne in 1991. But he was still playing in Opens in the 1990s and Hastings for the rest of his life. My final game with him had been in the Torbay Open of 1995, when he won in Round 4 to take him to 4/4. I had been sitting next to his round 3 game and he had modernised his opening approach by giving the Tromp a try. His follow up to 2. .. d5 was Nc3 which swerves into a Veresov. (Those who played him may recall his frequent use of the Bird's Opening 1. f4)

[Stewart Reuben]

Nobody chose to mention that Ray Keene has a Botvinnik number of 1, having beaten him at Hastings.
You can't deal with Paul Morphy including only games with clocks. He played no games with clocks.
The late Ron Harman surprisingly had a Kasparov number of 2. He had beaten somebody at Islington who beat Gary.
Murry Chandler is another player who has a Kasparov number of 1.
There used to be, indeed it may still be there, a programme for Kasparov win numbers, using solely games on chessbase.

But I have beaten Karpov and Korchnoi simultaneously. Michel Franklin shares that. It was at bridge and they partnered ech other at Hastings.
I drew with David Howell. But that was in a simultaneous display and I don't think you should count games not played on equal terms. But hang about, I was giving the simul. He was 6. I think draws are fine, but on a different basis from wins.

Leonard of course partnered Bobby Fischer in a consultation game against Penrose and Clarke. Does Bobby have any other consultation games on record? It was ad***ic***d a draw of course.

Connections. Well, I did tour Disneyland with Dr Euwe.

[Brian Towers]

Mine's 2: I've beaten James Sherwin, who's beaten Fischer.

Excellent! That makes mine a 3 going back to when I beat Jack when we both played for Wincanton.

I remember when Richard Tabor, the Wincanton captain, told me he was promoting Jack above me. It meant sitting down between two players (the other was RG Gray) with an age difference of 78 and sum of 100. Jack was 11 and Mr Gray (as we called him) was 89. In what other sport do you have statistics like that?

Actually RG was quite a strong player in his youth and I beat him when I was playing for Wells. Anybody know if RG had any significant victims?

[Brian Towers]

According to Edward Winter's chess notes (http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/winter39.html) RG Gray was on the losing end of G. Cartier (Savielly Tartakower) and P.H. Hazzard versus J.C. Waterman and R.G. Gray, Horsington, Templecombe, 1944.

Since Tartakower has an MN of 2 that gives RG an MN of 3 and me, along with all RG's many opponents over the years, an MN of 4.

[Stewart Reuben]

As an Arbiter I will have to rule against counting consultation games.

[Barry Sandercock]

I beat J. Penrose in a simul. in 1963. Does he have an mn.?

[Keith Arkell]

Well, if Sherwin routes have been ruled out, I'll still lay claim to a Fischer number of 2. I can think of at least 2 different ways, as I beat both Robert Byrne and Larsen at the Watson Farley Williams events in the late 80s.

[Leonard Barden]

I claim a Fischer number of 0.5.

[Tim Harding]

Well, if Sherwin routes have been ruled out, I'll still lay claim to a Fischer number of 2. I can think of at least 2 different ways, as I beat both Robert Byrne and Larsen at the Watson Farley Williams events in the late 80s.

So anyone who has beaten Nigel Short or Keith has a Fischer number of 3 (counting only wins in proper tournaments).

Keith won our only game (Cork 1985) but I beat Nigel in the last round of the Charlton open 1976. He was only ten then but had started with 4/4 before losing to Michael MacDonald-Ross and then me.

Since I've lost to pretty much everyone then there must be a huge number of Fischer-4s.

The Mortimer route if allowed (not serious games v Morphy but they certainly played in Paris in the 1860s) makes me and a whole lot of other people Morphy-4 if any type of game and any result is allowed.

Really this thread should have been in the History section.
I shall open a new thread there on the topic of Philidor Numbers later today.

[Barry Sandercock]

I beat Luke McShane when he was 8 in 1992. Would I get any kind of number for that?

[Stewart Reuben]

Barry S Luke became World U8 Champion when just 8. You get a Reuben 2. Luke beat me, albeit at rapidplay when he was 7.
I have a Morphy 3, but I expect you can improve on a Morphy 5.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"I claim a Fischer number of 0.5."

Excellent!