Possession of (or by) Mobile Phones

[Michael Farthing]

There might be a case for closing down amateur evening chess leagues. If so, then banning the possession of such devices is a good start towards this objective since it probably rules out anyone travelling after work from taking part.

Roger, quite simply it ain't going to happen.
No one will enforce such a rule in evening leagues.
No one will bother commenting that they are not enforcing them
No one will ask if these rules are being enforced.
No one will query the returns
No one, in fact, is going to do anything differently
And no one will be at all bothered about any of this - at any level.

The rules are there for events where it matters.
In evening leagues it doesn't.

[Roger de Coverly]

(a) Car boots

When walking through the car park at 10.55 am on the Sunday morning, I'm reminded by the notices about police advice not to leave valuables in a car.

[Roger de Coverly]

The rules are there for events where it matters.
In evening leagues it doesn't.

Andrew Martin plays in the evening league of which I am currently the controller. I intend to propose to the relevant AGM to set aside the ambiguous FIDE rules and make it clear that possession of a switched off mobile phone does not lead to any penalties.

Unlike the 4NCL this is easy enough as it isn't FIDE rated and doesn't intend to be. The only problem is in the relatively unlikely event that the ECF decided that something similar should be a condition of grading. That said, the CAA, (British arbiters) have issued stuff which seems to follow the FIDE line.

[Nick Grey]

I wish those working on sorting out ECF rules, tournament rules, County Rules & our club competition rules well. Also for those playing in tournaments in July.

On 4 NCL issue is all these in use in premises for those waiting. I'm sure the luggage issue is resolvable.

Just trying to work out what we ought to have for parents of our younger opponents - sitting in a car or out on the streets late at night is not really an option.

[Nick Grey]

Not really an option in closing evening chess - particularly as ECF charge our members for our rating purposes.

[Roger de Coverly]

Just trying to work out what we ought to have for parents of our younger opponents - sitting in a car or out on the streets late at night is not really an option.

The traditional prohibition in "over the board" chess is that you don't consult external sources of advice. This meant fellow team members, trainers, books and arguably parents, if their advice was of any value.

The safest position is that all electronic devices capable of running chess engines should be switched off. In a number of circumstances this may be difficult to enforce. The fall back positions are that the device doesn't contain any chess software, or if it does, there is no possibility of communicating that to the players. It should go without saying that devices should be incapable of receiving data or call, not because of the data or the call, but because of the disturbance potentially created.

[Martin Benjamin]

Can we just agree that there is no reason whatsoever that a chess player should have a mobile phone or any electronic device which can be used for communication on them in the tournament hall. Those found carrying such devices should be defaulted,

If people are so busy that they need to be contacted 24/7, then don't play on that particular day.

A firm stand is needed.

This does not stop accomplices handing such devices to a player en route from hall to WC. I do not know how this can be policed.

I'm afraid I can't agree. I am sure most of the points about the impracticality of storing mobile phones safely have already been made particularly for evening league chess, but I would like to make one further point. Even when a hotel room or a car is available, leaving valuable property in either place unattended runs contrary to anti-theft advice from both police and insurance companies.

The other solution is to leave my mobile at home or work and hope no domestic emergencies arise before or after the game, or that I won't need it to make an emergency call myself at some time. I suppose we shall all have to choose between the risk of being defaulted at an amateur chess match for a "possession of phone" offence and the risk presented through being uncontactable before or after a game to deal with emergencies. That's a matter of individual choice.

I really don't understand the amount of attention given to electronic devices and the possibility of cheating. Nobody likes cheating, so it is right to implement measures where practical. I don't think top level events are short of options for storing phones safely or implementing anti-cheating measures, so that's fine. However, for evening league chess or tournaments with small prizes, why get so worried? If people are desperate to cheat just to win a game in evening league chess or even a small prize at a tournament, then "frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" (or not much of one, anyway). I can think of easier ways of cheating not involving mobile phones (e.g. spectator assistance, newspapers with opening lines concealed on the inside pages, sandwich boxes with crib sheets inside, or more mundanely consulting the tournament bookstall), but nobody seems unduly obsessed with dreaming up measures to prevent these.

It seems to me that regulation in relation to possessing electronic devices at chess matches has ballooned out of all proportion to the threat it represents in almost all chess activity. If the law/rule is rigidly enforced, and I have decided to keep my phone on my person, I shall just have to accept a default, but to echo David Sedgwick's comment, it makes me wonder if the game is worth playing any more.

[Brendan O'Gorman]

Well said, Martin.

[Roger de Coverly]

The other solution is to leave my mobile at home or work and hope no domestic emergencies arise before or after the game, or that I won't need it to make an emergency call myself at some time. I suppose we shall all have to choose between the risk of being defaulted at an amateur chess match for a "possession of phone" offence and the risk presented through being uncontactable before or after a game to deal with emergencies. That's a matter of individual choice.

Indeed it is, but bad news for congress organisers if potential entrants decline to take the risk and also for team match captains if players use it as an excuse to decline to play.

I might except those leagues and Congresses not FIDE rated to declare that "possession of phone" was not an offence. The CAA might say otherwise.
http://www.chessarbitersassociation.co. ... E_Laws.pdf
This contains vague nonsense as follows

11.3 Mobile Phones Ban
It may be that some organisers will wish to ban mobile phones etc.
from their event. That is acceptable. The entry form should state this.
It is acknowledged that for some people having a mobile phone with them at a chess event is a
necessity. Therefore the default situation should be:
Where there is no safe keeping place for mobiles etc
.the following will apply
:If anyone intends to bring a phone with them to a chess event they should register that position and their phone number with the organiser. Such phones should be switched off completely (there may be exceptions for doctors on call etc)

[Ray Sayers]

Well said, Martin.

Seconded!

People have become so obsessed and addicted to their mobile phones, they can't conceive of not having them with them at all times.
I grew up quite happily playing chess without the need for a phone on me.

[Richard Bates]

Well said, Martin.

Seconded!

People have become so obsessed and addicted to their mobile phones, they can't conceive of not having them with them at all times.
I grew up quite happily playing chess without the need for a phone on me.

Er, are you agreeing with Martin, or Andrew Martin...?

[Andrew Martin]

If you have your mobile phone on your person with chess programs installed on it switched off, during an evening league match or whatever, what is to stop you going to the WC during the game and turning it on?

Yes, this does make one feel why one is playing the game in the first place, I completely agree with that.

[Roger de Coverly]

People have become so obsessed and addicted to their mobile phones, they can't conceive of not having them with them at all times.

I think that has to accepted as a given. That it should be switched off and not consulted for the entire game is an absolute requirement, but going beyond that for amateur chess is tantamount to banning the player as well.

[Roger de Coverly]

If you have your mobile phone on your person with chess programs installed on it switched off, during an evening league match or whatever, what is to stop you going to the WC during the game and turning it on?

The fact that it's against the rules and cheating. In matches played without arbiters, you need a certain amount of trust and respect otherwise you might as well close down. If you needed a practical method, the phone has to stay in sight, when you are out of sight.

If you are playing in a match with an IM or GM also playing, what is to stop the player consulting the titled player every so often for advice? What for that matter prevents you in a tournament going to the bookstall and looking up the supposed latest theory?

[Richard Bates]

If you have your mobile phone on your person with chess programs installed on it switched off, during an evening league match or whatever, what is to stop you going to the WC during the game and turning it on?

I dunno, a shortage of toilets?

What stops amateur bridge players from cheating in the absence of all the precautions that are taken in the professional game?