Novice friendly chess clubs

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Lewis Martin
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:45 am

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Lewis Martin » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:48 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Well for a start, who has parental responsibility for your juniors when they attend the club? That’s not a question you have to ask for adults.

As for the second bit of your sentence, I don’t think most clubs - certainly no club I have ever attended - has ever been set up to adequately deal with the demand for junior chess. In my experience it either takes somebody with an enormous amount of free time and interest (which rarely come together) or somebody to do it professionally.
Some parents actually stay there during the evening and maybe chat with players too with regards to chess advice if their child is really interested. And gradually if that child's interest in it grows (i.e. the parent knows that he/she likes chess), then some individuals in the chess club are likely to be a bit more trustworthy and most likely parents themselves too. Particularly younger ones, you may find that they turn up at 7.30, and then go home at 9pm for their bedtime. That still leaves at least another hour for 'adult' chess.

As someone mentioned above with regards to a rota system for helping to integrate the adults, the club could have a rota, or maybe they already have a few enthusiastic individuals willing to spend time with the children.

As for putting a lot of time into it, well, you are already there at the club in your own free time! Is half-an hour of your own time a lot to ask for? Juniors could also play some juniors too, though maybe adult supervision if they are at an early stage may be required with regards to learning moves etc. Gradually, when they are stronger, then you could alternate opponents. So say your club has only got 2 juniors and 2 adults: that's three different opponents. Then after a certain time the juniors go home, and ta-da, you are left with the 2 adults for the rest of the evening to play chess. Does it not get a bit boring if you're playing the same people every time? I know they are your mates but even so you are likely to want some variety.

I appreciate that a potentially boisterous child may not be your ideal opponent, particularly after a long working day for some, but as a club you could lay down some ground rules, or communicate with the parents if this is particularly a problem.

You may have to play some variants of chess for some entertainment. Double-board exchange is always fun every now and then, but as I say, this could be split between different players at a time. Eventually, these juniors will be stronger and more mature, that'll mean that they are actually a half-decent player you can compete with, and integrate them into your club matches!

As for your own club experience, with regards to improving in chess, well you can always work on it too and usually in your own free time, not just at club. Unless you are lucky to have a very strong player, i.e. FM/IM/GM willing to help you out at club you mostly do this as well. Some of these juniors may refresh your memory with regards to trciks and traps, or even interesting ideas of their own!

Most people go to chess club partly because it is an evening out, seeing your mates, having a beer if there is a bar and generally have fun. There will always be some time for that. Approach this with positivity, look at young people in a different light. They are sponges for information. Do you not take pride in teaching somebody and they succeed? After a short while, you will know which ones are more genuinely interested in chess. They may even make the national junior squad.

If you think of juniors as little bundles of fun that you can work with, rather than spoilt little brats, just maybe, your evening will be that bit more enjoyable.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:16 pm

Lewis Martin wrote:...
Within all of your post I didn’t see an answer to the question who has parental responsibility. Well, for the parents who stay, but what about those that don’t?

Not sure a brownie or cub pack would last very long with the attitude of 'well nobody’s actually responsible but there’ll be some guys hanging about there anyway. DBS check you say? What’s one of them?'

This is exactly why I don’t think most clubs are set up for handling children’s chess adequately. The procedures simply aren’t there.

It depends on age of children, of course - a 17 year old is technically a junior just like a 7 year old but the issues are hardly the same - and it depends on numbers, but large scale junior chess simply going to happen at most clubs.

And, yes, I know you could run things without any formal procedures in place and infinitely more likely than not nothing untoward will happen. But that’s not going to be much comfort if something does.

What’s your club’s insurance situation out of interest?

Lewis Martin
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:45 am

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Lewis Martin » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:40 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:What’s your club’s insurance situation out of interest?
Apologies, I might be a bit dense here, but I am not quite sure what you mean by insurance situation. Expand on this a bit more please? (I know you don't mean the financial sort)
Jonathan Bryant wrote:This is exactly why I don’t think most clubs are set up for handling children’s chess adequately. The procedures simply aren’t there.
Is it that difficult to put some in? Encourage a few members and show some enthusiasm for it! I am assuming your club (I am taking yours as an example) has a committee: what is to stop you from appointing someone reasonably responsible who is able to 'oversee junior development' (this person could be formally checked if needed) and although the club members will share the 'burden' of playing with them, that person could simply be the first point of contact, a friendly face for parents and juniors to talk to as well as perhaps arranging a few activities if necessary. This might require some effort on an individual's part admittedly, but this is unlikely to be a regular thing. You will have done very well for promoting junior chess, if that person is busy every week!

The above could also apply for welcoming new adult members too. Assuming that the first point of contact will either be the President or the Secretary then this person will be a 'welcomer' and oversee their own development over a few weeks or even months/years. I am not saying that they need to be looked after like children, but as in someone that is there who is genuinely interested in their progress. This may make newcomers more welcome.

Mike Truran is one of the busiest and most active men I'll ever know. He is also, recently, trying to be involved with junior chess in his club as well as managing his Witney club affairs. Not the only thing he does of course, the 4NCL and I haven't even mentioned his job (he has even got an OBE in Biosciences!). Notice that although he may have started it all - his sheer enthusiasm and energy for chess is amazing - he also has a few individuals helping him: it is a team effort of people helping each other out, creating the fantastic event that it is now. I admit that the 4NCL is much larger than a local chess club, but the principle behind it still applies, if someone is very willing to roll his sleeves up and start up the junior side of this, then with the help of a few fellow club members (with a bit of elbowing to get involved) things can done for the better.

If you are particularly keen on this Jonathan, then there is no reason that if you start a 'movement' in your club, that it couldn't thrive in accommodating new players, adults and juniors. Do something. It might work.

However your club isn't your average chess club partly due to the infamous blog!! However for anyone else it is entirely possible to start something up. How do you know, if you don't try? You might like it!

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:19 am

Lewis Martin wrote:
Apologies, I might be a bit dense here, but I am not quite sure what you mean by insurance situation. Expand on this a bit more please? (I know you don't mean the financial sort)
Public liability insurance.


Lewis Martin wrote: Is it that difficult to put some in?
With respect, Lewis you comments - including the reference to "someone reasonable responsible" & formal checks "if needed" - show that you’re a long way from grasping what’s required.

Lewis Martin wrote: How do you know, if you don't try? You might like it!
If you mean something like coaching chess in 12 schools across six different London Boroughs, setting up a junior chess club, running a chess summer school for children new to chess, beginning an ongoing series of training sessions for children and informal tournaments for children not ready (or simply not wanting) to play in ecf rated tournaments, you’re right: I do.

The reason I’ve done all that is because - at the risk of repeating myself - Streatham & Brixton Chess Club is simply unsuited to junior chess. It doesn’t have appropriate procedures in place and it’s not suited to developing them.


The blog is nothing to to with the chess club, btw.

Gordon Cadden
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Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Gordon Cadden » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:07 pm

From my experience of chess clubs, it is usually the weaker players that attend on club nights. The stronger players will only turn up at the club, for match play. The stronger London clubs, such as Cavendish, usually only meet for London League Matches, and Middlesex Events.
Adam Raoof runs a monthly Rapid Play event at Golders Green, and I believe he does have a section for Novice/weaker players.
I remember many London coffee house chess resorts from the old days, but believe that they have virtually all died out.

chrisbeckett
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Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by chrisbeckett » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:09 pm

Hi,

I'm a member of Battersea Chess Club and we're always on the hunt for new members from novice level upwards. We usually get a fairly consistent turnout for our Tuesday club nights and new people will always get a friendly welcome and a game.

To complete the sales pitch our venue, the Battersea Labour Club, is a five-minute walk from Clapham Junction and has some of the cheapest pints in London.

http://www.batterseachessclub.org.uk/

Chris

Nick Grey
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Nick Grey » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:21 pm

As an ex-Battersea member I can say that Battersea has always been welcome to the novice player.
I stumbled on a card in the local library in 1984. There were lots of local libraries in those days. It was a main way of communication for chess clubs & other societies.

I got a very warm welcome and hospitality, and some good chess at all levels. Handicap games too for encouraging weaker players to play stronger players. And for stronger players to work that much harder.

Also were encouraging when around the bandstand chess during the day on Clapham Common.

In late 80s also the odd teenager/young player was accommodated. I remember that one of them apologised that he was going to leave us and join Streatham. He was encouraged by Battersea that playing with stronger players their would help his chess.

Being even closer to Clapham Junction & quick journey I whole heartedly endorse Battersea as the best novice friendly club that I'm aware of.

At Kingston we have tried some outreach - taking sets into local pubs etc. With links to local university campus we have picked up a number of novice players recently, & hopefully a few more come September.

Lewis Martin
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:45 am

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Lewis Martin » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:12 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:
Public liability insurance.
I don't know what it would be, not something I would have to hand. We are at a public house.
Jonathan Bryant wrote: With respect, Lewis you comments - including the reference to "someone reasonable responsible" & formal checks "if needed" - show that you’re a long way from grasping what’s required.
This is exactly what I mean. What is required? My comments of course do not apply to an exclusively run junior club, if that was the case, then yes of course. My comments concern more about integrating juniors into adult chess clubs, particularly if there isn't a local junior club (not everyone lives in cities/towns), more of a 'step up' instead of their local primary/secondary school chess club if it has one. As is relevant for the thread topic.

From what you are telling me, it is a case of people giving their time, and a solution required to satisfy the law with regards to formal vetting (note, I am not saying this is all unecessary. I am all for child protection laws.) Is it not possible for some members particularly loyal/regular ones to go through these formal checks/vetting? What is it that's needed to satisfy these measures, and what are the barriers for a typical adult chess club to provide this? This is what I am trying to get at. Can't clubs have some kind of 'merger'?
Jonathan Bryant wrote: If you mean something like coaching chess in 12 schools across six different London Boroughs....
Wow, I didn't realise you do all that. I congratulate you on your passion and time for junior chess.

Apologies if my comments offended you. I believe I was trying to generalise it for a typical chess player (not just yourself) who bemoans about juniors in chess or that there are hardly any at their club. I was being rather provocative since tougher questions tends to get more answers. It is so much easier to communicate in person, but unfortunately words will have to do on this forum and the English language as it is, can be interpreted in many ways. Whenever I have more time to reply to a post (like now), I'll try to rephrase myself to be clearer in the future.
Jonathan Bryant wrote: The blog is nothing to to with the chess club, btw.
If it was, anyone would think that as Ray Keene is frequently mentioned in it, he is a key member of the club! :lol:
I appreciate that a lot of it is rather sarcastic and satirical, but it is still unusual since not many chess clubs have such blogs associated with them by name!

David Blower
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:01 pm

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by David Blower » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:33 am

I wish my club (Brewood) were better at this. I joined in 2011, but little did I realise when I joined that I would be a player graded over 100 and therefore start beating some of the other existing members of the club in my very first week at the club! Since then I have become captain of one of the clubs teams, took over as webmaster of the clubs website and I am on the club committee.

But at the time I joined I was not a newcomer to chess. I had played chess for over 20 years and wanted to join a chess club to play competitive league chess.

But reading through this thread:

We do have a group of regular social players who turn up to our club for more than just their own ECF graded matches.

We do have a rota of which committee member should welcome new players, and it is scheduled (as best as it can be) that the particular committee member on duty on any evening is not playing in an ECF graded match.

We also have a separate named contact for juniors.

With all this in mind please could you read our "joining the club" page from my clubs website and see if you think its ok. The link is here: http://brewoodchess.webs.com/joiningtheclub.htm

Our youngest regular member is 12 years old, and he has been going for 3 years, starting when he was 9. He was already the best in his school, but got thrashed by us adult members, and kept coming back, progress was made, we then put him into one of our teams, he helped the club win a trophy. It was a particular good evening for me when he won a match with the rook + king v king checkmate, because he had spent weeks beforehand practising the rook + king v King checkmate with me telling him how to do it.

Lewis Martin
Posts: 296
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:45 am

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Lewis Martin » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:08 am

David Blower wrote:
But reading through this thread:

We do have a group of regular social players who turn up to our club for more than just their own ECF graded matches.

We do have a rota of which committee member should welcome new players, and it is scheduled (as best as it can be) that the particular committee member on duty on any evening is not playing in an ECF graded match.

We also have a separate named contact for juniors.

With all this in mind please could you read our "joining the club" page from my clubs website and see if you think its ok. The link is here: http://brewoodchess.webs.com/joiningtheclub.htm
That all sounds wonderful! Your club sounds like just the model club I am talking about throughout the thread. Congratulations for improving the standard to what it is today.

I would like to ask, was it difficult to improve and be more welcoming to novices and juniors?

My personal view of your club's page is that it looks quite decent in general. For example, maybe the "Advice for Juniors and Parents" could be a bit more concise, it does look a bit long-winded. It is an important section of course, but I thought it was quite a lot to read.

You don't seem to have a paragraph for novice adult players, only giving details for experienced chess players and junior players. Perhaps you could have separate tabs for these categories, and link to them directly in your contacts page with a brief description.

Of course, these are only suggestions.

/edit You do seem to mention the novice adult players but only as a general category with regards to new members in terms of welcoming them. It is up to you whether you want to mention this group in detail like you did with the other categories of potential new players.

David Blower
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:01 pm

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by David Blower » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:34 am

Lewis Martin wrote:
David Blower wrote:
But reading through this thread:

We do have a group of regular social players who turn up to our club for more than just their own ECF graded matches.

We do have a rota of which committee member should welcome new players, and it is scheduled (as best as it can be) that the particular committee member on duty on any evening is not playing in an ECF graded match.

We also have a separate named contact for juniors.

With all this in mind please could you read our "joining the club" page from my clubs website and see if you think its ok. The link is here: http://brewoodchess.webs.com/joiningtheclub.htm
That all sounds wonderful! Your club sounds like just the model club I am talking about throughout the thread. Congratulations for improving the standard to what it is today.

I would like to ask, was it difficult to improve and be more welcoming to novices and juniors?

My personal view of your club's page is that it looks quite decent in general. For example, maybe the "Advice for Juniors and Parents" could be a bit more concise, it does look a bit long-winded. It is an important section of course, but I thought it was quite a lot to read.

You don't seem to have a paragraph for novice adult players, only giving details for experienced chess players and junior players. Perhaps you could have separate tabs for these categories, and link to them directly in your contacts page with a brief description.

Of course, these are only suggestions.

/edit You do seem to mention the novice adult players but only as a general category with regards to new members in terms of welcoming them. It is up to you whether you want to mention this group in detail like you did with the other categories of potential new players.
Thanks Lewis. It is encouraging to know that our club were already doing some of the things mentioned in this thread.

To be blunt the club needs the money from any potential new members. I have steered away from mentioning that on the website but I do not mind admitting it on this forum.

As I am the webmaster I will take on board the things you have suggested.

Just to be clear though we accept all newcomers (adults or children) regardless of their existing skill level.

I said in my original post that I wish my club were better at welcoming novices, and whilst every word on the website is true (if you live in or around Brewood and like chess why not visit us, we're open every Tuesday evening apart from in Christmas week and for August from 7:30pm and we meet at the Roman Catholic Church Hall, in Wharf Lane, in Brewood) it is one thing saying these things on websites, it is a bit different when it practically comes down to it.

The "advice for parents and juniors" whilst I admit is long winded to read is an attempt to cover everything that could possibly be covered. It comes from this topic that I posted in the junior section of this forum: http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6153

Basically the children mentioned in that topic turned up for two weeks and have never returned! Whilst I accept that a chess club is never going to be for everyone, the children were enthusastic, but it was the parent that was put off from coming back, and I was the one to chase the dad up by phone. He basically explained that whilst we were friendly the actual reality of teaching them things whilst still trying to be relatively quiet was not practical. In paricular it was a bit annoying as even though they were only there for 2 weeks some progress with the Queen + King v King checkmate was made, (which they did not know how to do at all, giving endless checks, whereas I started teaching them the "knights checking distance" technique for this checkmate.)

I imagine the problem of potential new members only ever turning up for a couple of weeks and then leaving and never returning again, is a problem up and down the country and not just at our chess club though. Clearly if they turn up they are already interested, and we would prefer them to stay.

So whilst the website is saying the right things I still think there is room for improvement and as a committee member I am intending to change this. But it certainly ISN'T easy. On Tuesday 16th Setember and also Tuesday 23rd September we have two weeks in a row free from matches and it is relatively early on in the chess season. When I suggested we hold open nights for the club, on those nights, someone else on the committee emailed back to suggest that it was too early on in the season to hold them, and also said that he had arranged his internal club championship match for the 23rd September! (The club championship is ECF graded by the way if you want to come to Brewood!)

I could go on forever with examples of this just at my own club. I won't, but what I will say is the practicalities of having new members is different to advertising it on the website. For my part I have stated that as long as I am not playing in an ECF graded match myself, I would be quite happy to welcome newcomers myself, to give advice, and to teach them some other techniques as well as playing games, (as best as I can, I'm only 102 ECF graded!) One thing I would say is most of our members do not seem to realise they have something to offer to potential new members, even though the standard at Brewood is not anywhere near "world class," (most are between 100-120 ECF graded!)

I will keep the thread updated from time to time, but I will say tea and coffee are also available at Brewood!

Quite a long forum post in the end!

Gordon Cadden
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:57 pm

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by Gordon Cadden » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:40 am

The London Metropolitan Chess Club does encourage beginners to attend their club. Each year, they do set aside a few club nights exclusively for beginners.
Check out their website.

David Blower
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:01 pm

Re: Novice friendly chess clubs

Post by David Blower » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:14 am

Lewis Martin wrote:
For example, maybe the "Advice for Juniors and Parents" could be a bit more concise, it does look a bit long-winded. It is an important section of course, but I thought it was quite a lot to read.

You don't seem to have a paragraph for novice adult players, only giving details for experienced chess players and junior players. Perhaps you could have separate tabs for these categories, and link to them directly in your contacts page with a brief description.

Of course, these are only suggestions.

/edit You do seem to mention the novice adult players but only as a general category with regards to new members in terms of welcoming them. It is up to you whether you want to mention this group in detail like you did with the other categories of potential new players.
On reflection I agreed with this view point and the "Joining the club" web page of the website has been altered. It is available at the following link: http://brewoodchess.webs.com/joiningtheclub.htm

Any comments are welcomed. You will notice that the "advice for parents" section is now a lot shorter and not as long-winded to read.

The main point though is we want all members of our club to enjoy themselves at the club.