Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

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Michael Flatt
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Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:39 pm

I have just bought a licence for UTU Swiss, the rebadged version of Tournament Director, on the basis that it promises to do pairings for tournaments and generate ECF grading submission files.

It appears that it will only output a text file if its contents complies fully with the ECF grading submission rules. I am not a registered grader and do not have the means to register new players which UTU Swiss identifies as data errors.

Has anyone else any experience of UTU Swiss and got to output anything useful that can be sent to an ECF grader when the tournament includes unregistered players?

Have I just wasted £50?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:53 pm

Michael Flatt wrote: It appears that it will only output a text file if its contents complies fully with the ECF grading submission rules. I am not a registered grader and do not have the means to register new players which UTU Swiss identifies as data errors.
I would have thought you have to work with the local grader to get codes for new players. The players might not be as new as you think and I would strongly suspect misidentification of players is the cause when people moan that their grades are incorrect.

If UTU refuses to output invalid files, that's a valuable check because it means the ECF system doesn't have to reject them.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:03 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:If UTU refuses to output invalid files, that's a valuable check because it means the ECF system doesn't have to reject them.
I wanted to submit a file of the correct format containing the tournament results to the county grader to check the player details and register any new players. By providing data in the correct format I was hoping to save the grader time and effort.

The alternative is to cobble something together on a spreadsheet which is more prone to data errors.

How do other organisers tackle this problem?

James Coleman
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by James Coleman » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:07 pm

Are you using the ECF Masterlist? That would have codes already set up for players that may not be graded but may not be new either (eg. only played the odd game).

My memory is a bit hazy on the specifics but when I used to grade the Richmond Rapidplay tournaments, there was a separate checker program that the ECF supplied, Tournament Director's (as it was named then) check wasn't always reliable enough.

With regard to setting up new players, only if nothing was found in the Masterlist would I then set up a new player - I didn't need to generate a code, just input as much information as I could, so that they could easily be identified as a unique individual. The code was then generated by the ECF / Richard Haddrell's system.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:15 pm

I don't have access to the Master List just the one that can be downloaded from the website grading page.

I originally contacted Richard Haddrell and he gave me the choice of becoming a registered grader and be supplied with all the appropriate software or submit results to the local grader.

I opted to submit results to the local grader to check. I bought the licence to UTU Swiss on the basis that it would format and output data in the required format. I hadn't expected to become a registered grader to use it.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:22 pm

Michael Flatt wrote: I wanted to submit a file of the correct format containing the tournament results to the county grader to check the player details and register any new players. By providing data in the correct format I was hoping to save the grader time and effort.
I would have thought you would register new players before the start of the tournament or at the latest before attempting to submit a grading file.

I don't expect you are prevented from running the tournament, just generating an output file in a specialist format. You could always just send the crosstable to the local grader.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:36 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote: I don't expect you are prevented from running the tournament, just generating an output file in a specialist format. You could always just send the crosstable to the local grader.
Running the tournament is not the problem. I merely want to submit the results to the grader for grading.

I have not found a means of outputting standings and cross-tables in any machine readable files. I don't see why the grader should have to accept paper copies. There should a simple means of passing the results in electronic form.

As I said previously I wanted to be as helpful as possible to the grader and save him unnecessary work. That is why I bought the licence for UTU Swiss. It is not the same product as Tournament Director.

Has any other organiser been able to use UTU Swiss to output ECF submission files?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:53 pm

Michael Flatt wrote: I have not found a means of outputting standings and cross-tables in any machine readable files
Print to file ? That must be how the webmasters get their data, as you frequently see Tournament Director output on websites.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:03 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:Print to file ? That must be how the webmasters get their data, as you frequently see Tournament Director output on websites.
UTU Swiss has very few options. Print to file does not appear on any menu I have seen.

The only option is to submit to the dedicated Results website.

The Program User is very limited in what he is allowed to do.

I can view the submission file in preview but it is protected against copying and pasting to a text file. I would prefer that it output the text file with warning messages that can be ignored or deleted.

Currently, there is no means to access the data I want in a form that that I could submit to the grader.

Angus French
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Angus French » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:04 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Michael Flatt wrote: I wanted to submit a file of the correct format containing the tournament results to the county grader to check the player details and register any new players. By providing data in the correct format I was hoping to save the grader time and effort.
I would have thought you would register new players before the start of the tournament or at the latest before attempting to submit a grading file.

I don't expect you are prevented from running the tournament, just generating an output file in a specialist format. You could always just send the crosstable to the local grader.
It's not necessary to register new players in advance of submitting results for grading and I'm not even sure this is now possible. New player codes will be assigned automatically on submission if necessary. I'm sure Richard Haddrell ([email protected]) will say...

I would really recommend signing up as a local "grader" (aka Results Officer) and getting hold of the ECF player list which can then be loaded into UTU Swiss. Though it sounds as though Michael may be too late for this.

I used the new UTU Swiss software a few weeks ago and hit a few snags, one of which, if I recall, concerned a new player. I think I may have ended up copy-and-pasting text from the 'Submission File' tab into a file and then checking it with the Result File Checker provided to Results Officers.

Michael, have you contacted the maker of UTU Swiss for advice?

Angus French
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Angus French » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:07 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:I can view the submission file in preview but it is protected against copying and pasting to a text file.
I was able to use Ctrl-A (select all) and Ctrl-C (copy to the Clipboard).

Michael Flatt
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:12 pm

Angus French wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:Michael, have you contacted the maker of UTU Swiss for advice?
I have contacted Neil Hayward and he advises that UTU Swiss will only output a file that fully complies with the ECF grading submission rules. He offers no work around.

I have tried to copy from the preview window of the submission file but it is protected against copying.

I would prefer that it output a text file with error messages that can be ignored or deleted.

Knowing what I know now I would never have used it. Totally user unfriendly.

I will try your suggestion, Angus.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:16 pm

Angus French wrote:
Michael Flatt wrote:I can view the submission file in preview but it is protected against copying and pasting to a text file.
I was able to use Ctrl-A (select all) and Ctrl-C (copy to the Clipboard).
Fantastic, Angus. That is the solution.

Thank you very much.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Adam Raoof » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:28 pm

Michael, contact me directly if you need a grader.

One thing which works for me when I get this problem with Swiss Master, which won't produce FIDE rating crosstables unless everyone has a FIDE ID, or date of birth, is to make sure that all the fields have something entered.

In my case a fake DOB or an ECF code instead of a FIDE ID works fine. I can then run the resulting file through the checker to get a legitimate ECF grading file. I just have to remember to delete the fake DOBs!

In your case try using FIDE ID numbers for new players or those without ECF codes. Or make them up!

Can you narrow down your definition of 'data errors'? Will UTC identify what they are in a separate file you can read and copy here?
Last edited by Adam Raoof on Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ian Thompson
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Re: Pairing Software and ECF Grading Submission File

Post by Ian Thompson » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:30 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:I have just bought a licence for UTU Swiss, the rebadged version of Tournament Director, on the basis that it promises to do pairings for tournaments and generate ECF grading submission files.

It appears that it will only output a text file if its contents complies fully with the ECF grading submission rules. I am not a registered grader and do not have the means to register new players which UTU Swiss identifies as data errors.
Michael Flatt wrote:I have contacted Neil Hayward and he advises that UTU Swiss will only output a file that fully complies with the ECF grading submission rules.
If the software claims to fully comply with the ECF grading submission rules, but will not work with new players (by which I assume you mean those without an existing grading code) then it is faulty. There is no ECF requirement for a new player to have a grading code prior to submission of results. The player is allocated one following submission of their first results.

A workaround, while you are waiting for the software to be fixed, might be to make up a grading code for the new player in UTU Swiss, then, once it has generated the ECF grading submission text file, edit the file to remove it.

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