Personal Chess Manager

[Paolo Casaschi]

In Hastings and Gibraltar the machines were ALL handed out by the organisers, there were no private ones.

Is a tournament permitted to require players to use those devices?

I see the obvious benefit for the tournament to have all the moves automatically input into their computer and their live transmission by the players themselves during play, however I can also see some player feeling uncomfortable with those devices and preferring to use old fashioned pen & paper.

[Jonathan Bryant]

Jonathan > Rather different attitude from FIDE to mobiles compared to their encouragement of Monrois.<

That could possibly be because mobile phones are guaranteed NOT to be secure, whereas Monroi was guaranteed to be secure ...

It could possibly also be FIDE have no way of making any money out of mobile phones. Of course, as you point out, any Monroi 'guarantee' was worthless.

Also true: people can much more easily cheat by talking to somebody else. That applies to phones as much as a Monroi of course.


The situation is different now. There are easier ways to cheat than faking a Monroi and switching it in. That doesn’t mean the FIDE decision at the time - i.e. to encourage the introduction of electronics within the playing hall - wasn’t bizarre.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"The 1 July 2015 FIDE Tournament Rules in team events outlaw players or captains standing BEHIND their opponent's chair."

I can see this is intended to prevent signalling to the player. Does it mean you cannot stand behind your own opponent's chair? Sometimes it is useful to see the board from another angle.

[MartinCarpenter]

Hope it isn't phrased quite as carelessly as just 'behind' or things could be more than a bit silly

[David Sedgwick]

In Hastings and Gibraltar the machines were ALL handed out by the organisers, there were no private ones.

In the case of Gibraltar, that's not correct.

"The 1 July 2015 FIDE Tournament Rules in team events outlaw players or captains standing BEHIND their opponent's chair."

I can see this is intended to prevent signalling to the player. Does it mean you cannot stand behind your own opponent's chair? Sometimes it is useful to see the board from another angle.

If you do that, you have to be careful that you're not distracting or annoying the opponent anyway.

In a game many years ago, I played my move and left the board while my opponent was away from the board himself. When he returned, he sat down in my chair, studied the position from my side for several minutes, then played his move and pressed the clock while still sitting in my chair.

I let it go.

[Stewart Reuben]

Pablo >Is a tournament permitted to require players to use those devices?<
That would be really peculiar on the part of an organiser. In Gib Michael Adams started is first game using the device. After about 20 moves h put it to one side and returned to an ordinary scoresheet.
In British events we often require a player to help decipher his scoresheet. In the IOM one year John Saunders was helped input Korchnoi's games by Korchnoi.

This is the 2015 wording about team events.
9.5 In a team competition a player must not stand behind the opposing team during play.
12 Team Captain’s Role in Team competitions
A team competition is one where the results of individual games contribute equally to the final score of a defined group of players.
12.1 Depending on the rules of the specific competition, the captain shall be required to deliver at a specific time a written list naming the players in his team participating in each round, to communicate to his players the pairings, to sign the protocol indicating the results in the match at the end of play.
12.2 A team captain is allowed to leave or re-enter the playing venue only with the permission of the arbiter.
12,3 The team captain must not stand behind the opposing team during play.
12.4 If the team captain wishes to speak to one of his players, he shall first approach the arbiter. The team captain shall then speak to the player in the presence of an arbiter, using a language the arbiter can understand. The same procedure shall be followed if a player needs to speak to the captain.
12.5 A team captain is entitled to advise the players of his team to make or accept an offer of a draw unless the regulations of the event stipulate otherwise. He shall not intervene in a game in any other way. He must not discuss any position on any board during play.
12.6 The team captain may delegate his functions to another person, provided he informs the CA of this in writing in advance.

[Graham Borrowdale]

"The 1 July 2015 FIDE Tournament Rules in team events outlaw players or captains standing BEHIND their opponent's chair."

I can see this is intended to prevent signalling to the player. Does it mean you cannot stand behind your own opponent's chair? Sometimes it is useful to see the board from another angle.

Sounds like another can of worms just waiting to be opened! How about a rule preventing players sitting down right beside me when I am trying to think? What about one stopping me looking at the ceiling when I am thinking (hoping for devine intervention)? How about one that says common sense should prevail?

[Kevin Thurlow]

"How about one that says common sense should prevail? "

Graham - you are the eternal optimist.

I have seen a parent sit behind his child during a game, (blocking an already narrow corridor) presumably to try to intimidate the opponent. Various grumpy players (including me) complained to the arbiter, who ejected the rather cross parent.

[MartinCarpenter]

I know common sense should avoid major issues with stuff like this Still, this rule does seem especially nonsencial as phrased: "In a team competition a player must not stand behind the opposing team during play."

So I'm theoretically not allowed to get up and watch around half the other matches now? The poor team on board 1 with their backs facing the end of the room are hardly allowed to stand up at all

Actually, this one could be a lot of fun too - is it clear somewhere else that 'team captains' only means NPC's?

They often aren't in a lot of competitions! (Normally not in the 4NCL for instance). "A team captain is allowed to leave or re-enter the playing venue only with the permission of the arbiter.". If that applied to player captains it could get incredibly annoying.

[Roger de Coverly]

So I'm theoretically not allowed to get up and watch around half the other matches now?

If not the intent, that would seem the practical effect. Presumably the idea is to rule out French signalling rather than rely on the generic phrase about external assistance. But you could equally well make French signalling work with a match the other side of the room.

[Stewart Reuben]

Try reading the rules. It refers to somebody standing behind the opposing players, not walking. If you are looking at games in another match in the same aisle, then you aren't standing behind the opponents. Yes, Roger there are other ways of cheating. This simply makes one that was done, by one Frenchman, less easy.
A person in play is never allowed to leave the playing venue. He is allowed to leave the playing area when it isn't his move. So a playing captain is already not allowed to leave the venue. A non-playing captain (which would include a playing captain whose game had finished) could obviouly cheat quite easily if he left the playing venue, paricularly if he later returned. Indeed it is difficult to see why he would do so, unless he had to retrieve medicine for a player, or send an urgent message, either on his own behalf or that of one of his players.

The 4NCL has a problem because there isn't adequate spacing for such an important event. One frequently sees players flailing around, trying to press the clock on the next board by mistake.

Another Law that is simple ignored, except by me, in the London League. 8.7 of the Laws. At the conclusion of the game both players shall sign both scoresheets,indicating the result of the game... I did so last night, held out my scoresheet, and my opponent asked what I thought he was supposed to do. It solves misunderstandings. Yet, in the 4NCL, it is second nature to the same players.
Another one. 9.1b (2) The offer of a draw shall be noted by each player on his scoresheet with the symbol (=). Even I sometimes forget that one. The Monroi device had no way of doing that, if I remember correctly. Of course it only matters if the offer is declined.

[Roger de Coverly]

Try reading the rules. It refers to somebody standing behind the opposing players, not walking. If you are looking at games in another match in the same aisle, then you aren't standing behind the opponents.

A typical 4NCL layout is something like this

match 1 x x x x x x x x

match 2 x x x x x x x x

match 3 x x x x x x x x

match 4 x x x x x x x x

where x indicates a board

If you have a player a from match 1 standing as follows

Code: Select all

match 1 x x x x x x x x
              a
match 2 x x x x x x x x

match 3 x x x x x x x x

match 4 x x x x x x x x

Is he standing behind one of his opponents even if watching match 2? Or is he OK as long as he doesn't turn around? Would he be OK if he went to the aisle between match 2 and match 3 or between match 3 and match 4?

Giving arbiters arbitrary powers is bad news, they've already been given an arbitrary power to default players for having a device in their jacket. But is it OK to put the device in a bag and put the bag in your jacket?

If you did the room in the style used at the Moat House Grand Hotel in Birmingham fifteen years ago, you wouldn't be able to stand up without being behind one of your team mates.

They had tables capable of holding two boards along the side of a room. Odd and even boards were paired so that the clocks always faced the aisle.

So it was something like


Aisle Board 1 Board 3

Aisle Board 5 Board 7

Aisle Board 2 Board 4

Aisle Board 6 Board 8

So if you stood up, you would almost always automatically be behind the game of a team mate.

[MartinCarpenter]

That was my point. As written the rules make it very clear that the player in the hypothetical set up isn't allowed to be standing up anywhere in the room that happens to be behind an opposing player.

Even funnier scenarios possible if two opposing players are standing up watching other matches and turn their backs on each other. No reference to time in the law as written. More practically, anyone wandering around watching matches will spend a bit of time looking at their own match from 'behind'.

I can perhaps imagine something with similar intent to current rule perhaps being able to make sense but it definitely needs wording much more carefully than it is at present or its just nonsense

[David Sedgwick]

A non-playing captain (which would include a playing captain whose game had finished) could obviouly cheat quite easily if he left the playing venue, particularly if he later returned. Indeed it is difficult to see why he would do so ...

To attend a meeting of a FIDE Commission, perhaps?

[Stewart Reuben]

David S, If you seek to find exceptions, you will do so. The captain in the Olympiad, wishing to go to a FIDE Meeting during play, only has to ask permission of the arbiter (of course it might not be granted). A captain is a doctor. He is asked to leave the playing venue to tend to a patient. No doubt any reader can find other reasons.
But it seems to me that 'Personal Chess Managers' neither help, nor hinder.