Cheating in chess

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NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed May 10, 2017 12:35 am

GM Pap should be careful. I need to check ACC regulations, but I don't recall Facebook accusations being an approved route.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed May 10, 2017 7:54 am

NickFaulks wrote:GM Pap should be careful. I need to check ACC regulations, but I don't recall Facebook accusations being an approved route.
At a quick glance the game doesn't look too implausible. Black gave white a pleasant edge which was close to being converted.

John McKenna

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John McKenna » Wed May 10, 2017 1:19 pm

Yes, the game itself is plausible - but did the GM blink first with 23... Rf5?! (Haven't had time to look at any suppied analysis.)

What is less plausible, to me anyway, is the White player's explanation of his own behaviour before, during and after the contest. Too many convenient coincidences there for my liking. He may be a talented nimble and quick young man, but he may be one who takes an edge sometimes. IM Jack might have something to say about the speed and quality of the play, or he may not possibly be able to say.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed May 10, 2017 3:43 pm

John McKenna wrote:Yes, the game itself is plausible - but did the GM blink first with 23... Rf5?! (Haven't had time to look at any suppied analysis.)

What is less plausible, to me anyway, is the White player's explanation of his own behaviour before, during and after the contest. Too many convenient coincidences there for my liking. He may be a talented nimble and quick young man, but he may be one who takes an edge sometimes. IM Jack might have something to say about the speed and quality of the play, or he may not possibly be able to say.
It sounds a bit odd I agree, but it doesn't sound like there's sufficient grounds to name the opponent in social media and imply that he cheated.

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed May 10, 2017 4:00 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:It sounds a bit odd I agree, but it doesn't sound like there's sufficient grounds to name the opponent in social media and imply that he cheated.
If indeed there are ever sufficient grounds, particularly if you are a GM. There are channels for complaints, and going public just makes the game look bad. I hope that GM Pap will be brought to book.
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Mark Ashley
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Mark Ashley » Wed May 10, 2017 5:44 pm

Wouldnt the speed of moves suggest cheating is less likely? I cant see how he could be fed the moves in a matter of seconds?

Ian Thompson
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed May 10, 2017 6:01 pm

Mark Ashley wrote:Wouldnt the speed of moves suggest cheating is less likely? I cant see how he could be fed the moves in a matter of seconds?
Borislav Ivanov was able to play rapidplay chess successfully, so not necessarily.

I'd say the reason playing quickly makes cheating less likely is that it would be unnecessary, so why do something that might arouse suspicion?

John McKenna

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by John McKenna » Wed May 10, 2017 6:05 pm

While not discounting the older goalie's fear of the sharp young penalty taker - and that any player can be disconcerted by a constant barrage of very fast, confident and strong moves - I have some faith in a good GM having a feel for when an opponent's play is just too good to be true.

It's not as if the GM had an off day, played badly and got into time troubles and a losing position. I had a look last night and found that he played as well, up to a point, as Black in Dautov (2630)-Ibragimov (2579) 2001 Bayern Ch.

In that definitive game, which was drawn in 33 moves, Dautov played 21.Nxd5, and annoted the game as follows - 21... Bxd5! (Nxd5? 22.Rac1) 22.Be2 Bb7? (c6! 23.b4... with W retaining only a slight advantage, at most, after further analysis), etc.

However, in the Thessaloniki game White went 21.h3!? a slightly 'sub-optimal' move (played in an almost identical position in Peng,Z [2405]-Maric,A [2415] 2005 EU Women's T Ch.), but good enough to take a GM out of his internal book - that could well include Dautov's analysis. After which, as I've already said, Black soon got into difficulties after... 23... Rf5?!

When looking at the game as a whole - with its prologue, arguments and epilogue - it is hard, at least for me, not to see it as an example of where a GM, playing well, is forced to the brink of defeat - on the board and clock - by a set of very suspicious actions on the part of an opponent.

The evidence may be circumstancial but it seems strong to me, and if White was in such a hurry to leave, and had not expected a win, why not offer the GM a draw at one of the points in the game when he was seemingly teetering on the brink of defeat?

Or, at some point, did trying to gain a famous victory become more important than the "serious personal problems" that the White player was experiencing on the day? Maybe so, maybe not. Who knows?

I can understand the use of 'social media' to put the case, particularly after the reaction of the tournament officials to the events at the time - foreign GMs are a dime a dozen in SE Europe, and part of the price they may have to pay is that they keep quiet, and just take whatever comes, so that local boys can be encouraged to make good. If not what else is it all for?

NickFaulks
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by NickFaulks » Wed May 10, 2017 6:16 pm

John McKenna wrote: why not offer the GM a draw at one of the points in the game when he was seemingly teetering on the brink of defeat?
Oh dear! I have no doubt that GMs save a lot of half points in this way, but they should not consider them a right.
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David Shepherd
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by David Shepherd » Wed May 10, 2017 6:51 pm

Without commenting on the specific case I suspect it may well occur increasingly often. There are clearly some very talented players that play huge amounts of blitz on the internet and not very often over the board. It would seem logical that such players may well be capable of playing very strong moves very quickly, and may adopt a tactic of trying to create time pressure on their opponent by playing very quickly (particularly in games where their opponent is a very strong player).

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun May 14, 2017 11:41 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugK2nqeUKP0

Kasparov finding out that he's facing a 2200 in a simul in 2011.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun May 14, 2017 12:54 pm

I was a bit annoyed when I gave a simul in Barbados. Two of my opponents were members of their national teams. One was female and I managed to avoid losing. The other was male and higher rated than me. I wondered while playing how come he was avoiding all the little tricks I was setting.

The person in charge of that Kasparov simul in South Africa was Gunther van der Berg who I know quite well.

I was giving a simul at the Daily Mail Boys and Girls Exhibition. 12 opponents was the norm and I was racing around as normal. I thought two of my opponents were putting up quite stiff resistance, so I looked. They were David Mabbs nd Dave Rumens. i lost swiftly after that.

But cheating? Hmm.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:05 pm

http://www.chess-news.ru/node/23487

Reply to a seemingly unconvincing accusation of cheating by a Russian player against a junior. The accusations appearing in this earlier article http://chess-news.ru/node/23482

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:59 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote: Reply to a seemingly unconvincing accusation of cheating by a Russian player against a junior.
This seems to have been escalated to a complaint to the FIDE Ethics Commission.

From
http://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS ... nex_30.pdf

Case 1/2017: Complaint by Jeremy Milikow on behalf of his minor son against
WIM Svetlana Bezgodova (RUS) for allegedly making unjustified accusations of
cheating at the 2017 Maccabiah Open in a website article – statements are currently
exchanged in advance of EC’s decision.
The Google translation wasn't terribly clear as to what was being alleged. The main cause for suspicion appeared to be that the junior frequently left the board.

I would suggest that to avoid such allegations, trainers should instruct their charges to minimise time spent away from the board, particularly if out of eye shot of the opponent.

Alan Llewellyn

Re: Cheating in chess

Post by Alan Llewellyn » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:22 pm

I think everyone I play cheats. I can play near perfect(according to later analysis on computer) games against 60 grades and lose. the fact that no one appears to know anything about chess and they still whop me suggests I am either poor or they are cheating.

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