Use of Technology at the British Championships

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:18 am

Tim Harding wrote:
Carl Hibbard wrote:Andrew Zigmond has a good post it is just posted on the wrong forum.
Can you post the link for that here please?
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/Forum/vi ... f=25&t=363

Similar points as here.
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Mick Norris
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:36 am

Adam Raoof wrote:Exactly; you buy a licence for Swiss Manager, and chess-results functionality actually comes free.
Adam

Is it possible to use Swiss Manager for the pairings for the British?
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Mick Norris
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:42 am

David Clayton wrote:There is no technical IT support staff within the team to support the various IT infrastructure or systems in use at the tournament, so there are no individuals underperforming. Just a small group of individuals attempting to undertake tasks outside their skill set or remit. Are you berating those with the appropriate professional expertise who do not volunteer, or those who are attempting to introduce newer technology and meet peoples rising expectations within the constraints imposed upon them? Perhaps you are suggesting these tasks should not be undertaken unless all the appropriate resources are in place, which is a valid opinion. I believe this is just one of the symptoms that is being exposed due to the push of the introduction of IT from the bottom of the organisation rather than the pull associated those events which are IT lead.
Mick Norris wrote:I thought Dave Clayton wasn't talking about computerised pairing systems, but presumably Sean Hewitt and Adam Raoof manage to use these successfully
Correct Mick, my observations are not on specifics, but based on an organisation culture where change is being pushed from below. This is something that happens in many organisations. It’s not just about the implementation of IT systems, but how should they be adopted and incorporated into the event or should the event change to take advantage of the opportunities of the new technologies and communication channels available to us?
Dave

Thanks to you for giving up your time

The section I have highlighted in bold is key I think

Presumably Alex H is in charge as Director of Home Chess? Although his budget is no doubt set by Council

I think it is probably a more fundamental question of what is the British for/what should it be? But I can see no appetite for a serious discussion about that

As far as funding is concerned, I think you can have a debate with ECF members about funding the English Championships, but would need to bring the other countries into a discussion about the British
Any postings on here represent my personal views

David Sedgwick
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:00 pm

Mick Norris wrote:Is it possible to use Swiss Manager for the pairings for the British?
Swiss Manager is being used for the pairings at the British. But for at least some events, notably the British Championship, the option to input pairings manually is being selected.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:07 pm

Mick Norris wrote: As far as funding is concerned, I think you can have a debate with ECF members about funding the English Championships, but would need to bring the other countries into a discussion about the British
I don't see why. It's not as if they make any financial contributions to running it, other than supplying an arbiter or several. There's an involvement by the paid ECF Office staff as well as direct costs.

NickFaulks
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:25 pm

David Sedgwick wrote: Swiss Manager is being used for the pairings at the British.
Really? I have consistently been unable to work out how floats were handled. This isn't my expertise, so perhaps I'm missing something.

Edit. If you tell me they used median up, median down then I can get close.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:35 pm

NickFaulks wrote: Edit. If you tell me they used median up, median down then I can get close.
It appears something of a mixture. There seemed some events where the pairings appeared to have used the Swiss Dutch system and thus presumably were generated directly by Swiss-Manager. Others notably the British Championship itself and perhaps the Major Open were allegedly using the CAA rules and with those rules not supported by Swiss-Manager, there were pairing boards and cards lurking in the background.

NickFaulks
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:01 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
It appears something of a mixture.
The point is that we shouldn't be having this discussion. The pairing mechanism isn't supposed to be a secret.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:00 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:Swiss Manager is being used for the pairings at the British.
NickFaulks wrote:Really? I have consistently been unable to work out how floats were handled. This isn't my expertise, so perhaps I'm missing something.

Edit. If you tell me they used median up, median down then I can get close.
I'm afraid that I can't see the connection between my comment which you quoted and your response to it.

However, to clarify I believe that the for the British Championship (not necessarily other events) the procedure was as follows:

1. The pairings were done manually using the Unified British Swiss Pairing Rules.

2. The floats were median to median, as those Rules specify should be the case for long tournaments.

3. Once done, the pairings were input into Swiss Manager. Of course, it could just as well have been any other program.

NickFaulks
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:17 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:Swiss Manager is being used for the pairings at the British.
I'm afraid that I can't see the connection between my comment which you quoted and your response to it.

3. Once done, the pairings were input into Swiss Manager. Of course, it could just as well have been any other program.
Point taken. When someone says that Swiss Manager is being used, I may not be alone in taking that to mean that the pairings it produces are taken into account. They weren't, fair enough.

I have found that using Swiss Manager to input fully manual pairings is an unwieldy business, and am interested to see that professionals know of no better way - perhaps they've tried the Krause format and didn't much enjoy that either!
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David Sedgwick
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:33 pm

NickFaulks wrote:When someone says that Swiss Manager is being used, I may not be alone in taking that to mean that the pairings it produces are taken into account. They weren't, fair enough.

I have found that using Swiss Manager to input fully manual pairings is an unwieldy business, and am interested to see that professionals know of no better way - perhaps they've tried the Krause format and didn't much enjoy that either!
There are advantages in using Chess Results to display the pairings, even if you don't use Swiss Manager to generate them. One such advantage is that the pairings are still available even if the tournament website crashes.

You're right about the inputting being an unwieldy business. That no doubt explains why the British Championship pairings were rather late some evenings.

E Michael White
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by E Michael White » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:55 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:"[ECF Director of Home Chess Alex Holowczak] has a colossal portfolio which he discharges with energy and enthusiasm."
- David Anderton speaking at the Closing Ceremony

Like
Alex's portfolio may be more than David Anderton surmises if this entry on the FIDE Rating site is anything to go by under AH's Arbiter record:

Chief 102nd British Chess Championships Tea... Sep15

What is the extended record masked by the 3 dots. Could it be AH was the chief teaboy or tealeaf reader ?

David Sedgwick
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:09 pm

E Michael White wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:"[ECF Director of Home Chess Alex Holowczak] has a colossal portfolio which he discharges with energy and enthusiasm."
- David Anderton speaking at the Closing Ceremony

Like
Alex's portfolio may be more than David Anderton surmises if this entry on the FIDE Rating site is anything to go by under AH's Arbiter record:

Chief 102nd British Chess Championships Tea... Sep15

What is the extended record masked by the 3 dots. Could it be AH was the chief teaboy or tealeaf reader ?
For the record, the full entry is 102nd British Chess Championships Team Blitz.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:14 pm

David Sedgwick wrote: For the record, the full entry is 102nd British Chess Championships Team Blitz.
That's an impressive title for what was a social evening Blitz with just 6 teams.

It's all fully documented on chess-results.

http://www.chess-results.com/tnr182688.aspx?lan=1

Michael Flatt
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Re: Use of Technology at the British Championships

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:54 am

An interesting item from Alex's report appended to the FIDE delegates report, which seems to imply that manual pairings will not be permitted in the British Championships 2017 and beyond.

Swiss Pairings Commission
It was re-iterated that from 1st July, 2017, a FIDE Endorsed Pairing Program must be used for
FIDE norm events . This only applies to individual events.

1. FIDE Delegate's Report, http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... report.pdf