New (and first) Welsh Grandmaster

[AustinElliott]

"Why is it worse than a Yorkshire player defecting to Lancashire?"

Nothing is worse than that.

Hmm... A Lancashire player opting to play for Greater Manchester? <ducks>

[Michael Farthing]

I have to confess that I'm a Derbyshire player who defected to Nottinghamshire, then to Cheshire, then to Cambridgeshire and finally to Lancashire (and married a Yorkshire lass). What a treachorous career!

[Nigel_Davies]

Today's post for the Chess Improver blog, which I hope will set the record straight. This is really what I was telling the press all along, but they seemed to get hold of the wrong end of the stick.

http://chessimprover.com/why-i-switched-to-wales/

http://tigerchess.com

[NickFaulks]

Today's post for the Chess Improver blog, which I hope will set the record straight. This is really what I was telling the press all along, but they seemed to get hold of the wrong end of the stick.

Nigel, this is very clear and informative, but you do not explain what impelled you to move from WLS to ENG in the first place. Did you have expectations that have been disappointed?

Most of the other GMs you mention took a clear decision to move their lives from the country of their old federation to that of their new one. Have you done that on either occasion? I'm just interested.

By the way, I am in Gibraltar and yesterday mentioned chess to a lady who does not follow the game at all. She immediately asked about the defecting grandmaster and the unsavoury president.

[Mick Norris]

I have long held the view that International chess (this includes FIDE rated chess which of course does not have to be played abroad) should be delegated to a committee of those it effects and that amateurs such as myself shouldn't be in a position to stick their oar in. At the same time there needs to be a relationship between the amateur and professional bodies.

Andrew

If you include FIDE rated chess, then you are referring to all of us Gold members, how many is that? I think you might leave that out of the mix

If you refer to International only, then the problem some ECF members have is that some of their membership fees appear to go to pay the "professionals" to play for England - you might think that strong England teams are a good thing, but some amateur players don't care - if International was self-financing, then bingo you could divide that up nicely

Of course, some of the players who don't want any of the membership fees to go to GMs are quite happy to pay those GMs for a game in a simul

Anyway, this is off-topic and I am glad that Nigel has set the record straight, albeit I don't agree with everything he says (not that he is bothered about that ) and look forward to seeing Sam's progress

[Roger de Coverly]

If you refer to International only, then the problem some ECF members have is that some of their membership fees appear to go to pay the "professionals" to play for England - you might think that strong England teams are a good thing, but some amateur players don't care - if International was self-financing, then bingo you could divide that up nicely

It's not a matter of "appear", that's actually where they go. Not that the ECF does so, but it could be argued that the excess that Gold members are required to pay over Silver members is a contribution towards financing the International teams. The attempt to turn the ECF itself into a charity or charitable status fell foul of this. There would have to be a separate organisation to handle "professional" chess, but how could it be financed?

[MartinCarpenter]

"Why is it worse than a Yorkshire player defecting to Lancashire?"

Nothing is worse than that.

Hmm... A Lancashire player opting to play for Greater Manchester? <ducks>

They'd surely be in real danger of existential angst GM to Yorkshire seems rather less fraught.

[Alistair Campbell]

Tim Harding > A compensation fee (payable from the new federation to the old federation in circumstances I’m not clear about).<
This is payable when a leading player wishes to play for a new federation before the end of the 'cooling off' period. The old federation feels they have spent a large sum of money developing the player. Now the new federation benefits. A good example must have been Karjakin.

First time I’ve ever been mixed up with Tim Harding…

I understand that justification for the compensation fee (although I would use the words “waiting period”). My quibble is over the wording, and in particular over references to residence. Perhaps I can use Nigel Davies as an example.

Elsewhere he says:

A sponsor was willing to pay my transfer fee to FIDE

I’m not sure whether to infer that a sponsor actually paid the fee, or was merely willing. One might wonder why they would fork out €5,000 when presumably they could wait a year and pay no fee (especially since Nigel has apparently no current intention of playing representative chess).

However would a compensation fee not be due also? AFAIK a transferee needs two years’ residency in the [territory of the ??] new federation and I don’t think Nigel has that, unless either the UK counts as Wales for this purpose, or the ECF has waived the requirement since, to paraphrase, he is not valued.

[Roger de Coverly]

A sponsor was willing to pay my transfer fee to FIDE

I’m not sure whether to infer that a sponsor actually paid the fee, or was merely willing. One might wonder why they would fork out €5,000 when presumably they could wait a year and pay no fee (especially since Nigel has apparently no current intention of playing representative chess).

There are two levels of fee.

FIDE charge €250 regardless, then an additional fee depending on rating and title if the player is to represent the new Federation in an official FIDE event.

(edit) before a waiting period has expired (/edit)

https://ratings.fide.com/fedchange.phtml
from which

1. the official confirmation from the new federation (by e-mail) that it agrees to accept the transferee as its new member, and that the new federation agrees to pay a notification fee (in accordance with B.04. Registration, Transfer & Rules of Eligibility for Player ) in the amount of 250 Euro for the transfer. On receipt of their agreement, the transfer shall be announced and the new federation shall be invoiced.

[Nigel_Davies]

Tim Harding > A compensation fee (payable from the new federation to the old federation in circumstances I’m not clear about).<
This is payable when a leading player wishes to play for a new federation before the end of the 'cooling off' period. The old federation feels they have spent a large sum of money developing the player. Now the new federation benefits. A good example must have been Karjakin.

First time I’ve ever been mixed up with Tim Harding…

I understand that justification for the compensation fee (although I would use the words “waiting period”). My quibble is over the wording, and in particular over references to residence. Perhaps I can use Nigel Davies as an example.

Elsewhere he says:

A sponsor was willing to pay my transfer fee to FIDE

I’m not sure whether to infer that a sponsor actually paid the fee, or was merely willing. One might wonder why they would fork out €5,000 when presumably they could wait a year and pay no fee (especially since Nigel has apparently no current intention of playing representative chess).

However would a compensation fee not be due also? AFAIK a transferee needs two years’ residency in the [territory of the ??] new federation and I don’t think Nigel has that, unless either the UK counts as Wales for this purpose, or the ECF has waived the requirement since, to paraphrase, he is not valued.

It was just the E250 transfer fee that the sponsor paid. I haven't represented England in any FIDE events and could, in theory, play for Wales in them from next July (2016). But this won't happen anyway as Wales require at least a 2 year residency before anyone plays for them, which is fair enough.

[Andrew Zigmond]

I have long held the view that International chess (this includes FIDE rated chess which of course does not have to be played abroad) should be delegated to a committee of those it effects and that amateurs such as myself shouldn't be in a position to stick their oar in. At the same time there needs to be a relationship between the amateur and professional bodies.

Andrew

If you include FIDE rated chess, then you are referring to all of us Gold members, how many is that? I think you might leave that out of the mix

If you refer to International only, then the problem some ECF members have is that some of their membership fees appear to go to pay the "professionals" to play for England - you might think that strong England teams are a good thing, but some amateur players don't care - if International was self-financing, then bingo you could divide that up nicely

Of course, some of the players who don't want any of the membership fees to go to GMs are quite happy to pay those GMs for a game in a simul

Anyway, this is off-topic and I am glad that Nigel has set the record straight, albeit I don't agree with everything he says (not that he is bothered about that ) and look forward to seeing Sam's progress

When I was in Torquay a couple of years ago I found myself drinking with a group of titled players and it was interesting how they had a very different set of frustrations and priorities to the ones I have as a club and league player. I personally don't mind my membership fee being used to foster professional chess in this country, given that most titled players make their money from coaching and simuls rather than actually playing. I'm personally favour of greater `devolution` for the international, home and junior directorates - let council set the budget and hold the director accountable but otherwise let those it effects have a meaningful discussion about the best way forward. I feel the `rag bag of amateurs` comment was a bit unfair to the hard working volunteers English chess relies on but our titled players deserve better than to have club and league players forever sticking their oar in.

Of course you don't have to be a titled player or indeed a passport holder to play FIDE rated chess and the success of the 4NCL congresses proves that. I suppose it is open to debate where the line is drawn.

[Roger de Coverly]

- let council set the budget and hold the director accountable but otherwise let those it effects have a meaningful discussion about the best way forward.

As far as England teams are concerned, I think it has to be accepted that if the Open team is to contain players from the world's top 100, that these players presumably have to build their schedules on what to play in and where, several months in advance. Can you reasonably substitute a cheaper team, if there's a last minute budget problem?

[Alistair Campbell]

There are two levels of fee

If I may be pedantic for a second there are several levels of fee and three types of fee as described in the FIDE Handbook - notification, transfer and compensation. I think someone noted this upthread.

It was just the E250 transfer fee that the sponsor paid.

Thanks for the clarification. I would understand that as being the “notification fee” as described in the FIDE handbook, and would appear to be more like VFM.

I note that co-incident to the appointment of a new ECF publicity director there appears to have been plenty of publicity.

[LawrenceCooper]

- let council set the budget and hold the director accountable but otherwise let those it effects have a meaningful discussion about the best way forward.

As far as England teams are concerned, I think it has to be accepted that if the Open team is to contain players from the world's top 100, that these players presumably have to build their schedules on what to play in and where, several months in advance. Can you reasonably substitute a cheaper team, if there's a last minute budget problem?

I found the players to be quite flexible on this point. I always checked their availability a long way in advance, often as soon as the previous event had finished. They were sympathetic to my position of wanting to pay them a fee without always being able to guarantee it 9-12 months in advance. 2012 was by far the worst experience I had where the April finance meeting didn't agree a budget and so I was left in limbo for several months after that. Eventually a budget was agreed but there was probably a short overlap where I was playing with money not guaranteed to my budget.

[Roger de Coverly]

There's now a statement by the ECF.
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/nigel-davies/

I suppose it's the first public announcement on behalf of the ECF by its new International Director.