Greatest English Chess Players

[NickFaulks]

And he won a world junior championships of some sort - people were saying that as one of tony miles great accomplishments and a reason to put him highter

Luke won the under 10 section. I'm not saying that isn't a great achievement, but still it isn't quite the same...

[Christopher Kreuzer]

He has beaten magnus carlsen and vladimir kramnik, both world champions, which is worth a lot. And he won a world junior championships of some sort - people were saying that as one of tony miles great accomplishments and a reason to put him highter

McShane won the U10 World Championship in 1992.
Miles won the 1974 World Junior title (U20).

It's not difficult to look this sort of thing up. Ditto with McShane's best results.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Luke had class opposition though with the benefit of hindsight. It included Bacrot, Ganguly, Aronian, Grishuk and Vallejo Pons.

Interesting. Where is the list of those playing?

[LawrenceCooper]

... the results he has achieved definitely mark him out as one of the best in the world right now.

Which particular results do you have in mind?

I was wondering that, perhaps it's the "right now" that tripped me up. I'm a huge McShane fan, but you can't get world class results if you don't play.

The 2012 Tal Memorial stands out for me, beating Aronian & Morozevich with black and Kramnik with white http://en.chessbase.com/post/tal-memori ... cord-event

[Jonathan Bryant]

Luke Mcshane ... out as one of the best in the world right now.

I have no problem with anybody putting McShane on their list if that’s what they want to do. Nevertheless your claim here is ridiculous. The Carlsen game was 2010. Kramnik 2012. Fine results to be sure, but scarcely relevant to "right now".

Personally I wouldn’t put McShane in my top 10. Great player that he could/would have been, he’s never nearly reached the candidates’ (unlike Nunn) or made it into the World top 10 (again unlike Nunn). I’m quite sure McShane of now would beat the Nunn of the late 1980s. That’s beside the point, though. For me anyway.

Have a different opinion - fine. As before, opinions are one thing. Nonsense and made-up 'facts', quite another.

It's not difficult to look this sort of thing up.

Indeed.

The 2012 Tal Memorial stands out for me, beating Aronian & Morozevich with black and Kramnik with white http://en.chessbase.com/post/tal-memori ... cord-event

I agree with this.The win against Kramnik in particular was truly spectacular. It was a fantastic tournament success and makes good evidence to support a claim that Luke was one of the top players in the world in 2012.

[Roger de Coverly]

Interesting. Where is the list of those playing?

I just did a database search for Luke. Provided the results are in date order, 1992 is at the top. Beyond that, you do a search for place and event to get all the games, from which you can deduce a player list.

[NickFaulks]

The 2012 Tal Memorial stands out for me, beating Aronian & Morozevich with black and Kramnik with white http://en.chessbase.com/post/tal-memori ... cord-event

Couldn't agree more, absolutely phenomenal. He took a couple of weeks leave from a high pressure job to play against the cream of world chess, kicked off with two losses and then came back to beat three of them ( and should never have lost to Carlsen in the final round, I could have drawn that... well, maybe ). In my book, a sporting achievement to be ranked with +6 at Linares. And yet, the record shows that he made -1, scored poorly at the next London Classic and hasn't played much elite chess since.

[IM Jack Rudd]

Hmmm, yes. If you want the best ten English players of all time, it's almost certainly going to be Adams, Short, McShane, Sadler, Jones, Howell and four other relatively recent players. The greatest ten is a harder beastie to pin down.

[Joshua Gibbs]

The 2012 Tal Memorial stands out for me, beating Aronian & Morozevich with black and Kramnik with white http://en.chessbase.com/post/tal-memori ... cord-event

Couldn't agree more, absolutely phenomenal. He took a couple of weeks leave from a high pressure job to play against the cream of world chess, kicked off with two losses and then came back to beat three of them ( and should never have lost to Carlsen in the final round, I could have drawn that... well, maybe ). In my book, a sporting achievement to be ranked with +6 at Linares. And yet, the record shows that he made -1, scored poorly at the next London Classic and hasn't played much elite chess since.

This, to me, shows why I think he should be the top ten English chess players ever!

[MJMcCready]

I get a horrible feeling that in 20 years time the lists in this thread won't have any new entries but I hope I'm wrong.

[NickFaulks]

Howell might belong in it then, which he doesn't now.

[Richard Bates]

I wonder if Luke ever gets amused or irritated at the number of people who seem to confidently be able to pontificate on what he does (or doesn't or did or didn't) do for a living?

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Hmmm, yes. If you want the best ten English players of all time, it's almost certainly going to be Adams, Short, McShane, Sadler, Jones, Howell and four other relatively recent players. The greatest ten is a harder beastie to pin down."

I agree with Jack. We all learn from earlier players. Ever since Greco came up with "Philidor's Legacy" (presumably he had a Time Machine), lots of relatively weak players would spot the idea. Even I played it in a league match. That doesn't mean they or I would beat Greco or Philidor.

Making lists of the best players ever is fun, but futile. (One such list based on back-calculated ratings concluded that McShane was better than Botwinnik!) I would include Staunton in the top ten as he was a great player in his day and his influence popularised chess, so he had a lasting impact. But I suspect if you asked n people to list the top ten players you would get about n different answers.

[IM Jack Rudd]

McShane probably is better than Botvinnik. But so are a hundred other people, which is why McShane is not world champion.

[Matt Mackenzie]

Which just shows how meaningless "better" is in this context, really