Definition of Super Grandmaster

[Matt Mackenzie]

FIDE have never awarded titles posthumously, going right back to 1950.

[Brian Towers]

So the practice has fallen into desuetude.

[NickFaulks]

All did rather more to earn it than Alexandru Crisan

His was revoked, what's your point?

[NickFaulks]

All did rather more to earn it than Alexandru Crisan

His was revoked, what's your point?

I can't work out how to link to this, but...

The victories of Grandmaster Crisan
left some people deep in suspicion.
Well, it's been fourteen years,
but at last he's in tears
when he looks at his profile's condition.

https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=1201271

[Leonard Barden]

Here is the list of Honorary Grandmasters, per Wiki. It may be controversial, since I believe that Penrose's title, for instance, was clearly intended not to be "honorary", even though it was awarded in that manner.

Why does Nick Faulks keep repeating this canard? Fide's own profile page for Penrose shows him as GM, not HGM. If you find an error on Wiki (they happen) please get it corrected there instead of repeating the falsehood on this forum.

From a 2016 Forum thread:
NickFaulks wrote:
It looks like an honorary title, and that's what Wikipedia thinks it was, but strange things happened twenty years ago.

Penrose became a GM and not the inferior honorary version. How it happened is through another of Bob Wade's services to English chess.

In the late 1970s when Jonathan had virtually finished his over the board career I thought my friend and contemporary was worthy of the GM title. This was round about the time when, for a year or two, I was BCF international grader, so i had some status in putting his name forward. I thought that Penrose's performances in the 1961 Enschede zonal and in the 1968 Lugano Olympiad were of norm level and would satisfy the then regulations. Harry Golombek was FIDE delegate, so I put the matter to him. At that time Fide were going back and awarding some titles based on events from 10-25 years previously.

Thinking that Jonathan's case was slightly marginal, I thought it would improve his chances if a second English player was put up for the title. My crafty plan was to appeal to HG's ego by suggesting that he also put up himself on the basis of his result at Venice 1950 (probably close to a GM norm, and Prins who was half a point in front of HG in Venice did get the title using that as one of his norms), the 1951 Bad Pyrmont zonal, and one or two other events which I now forget.

Alas, the members of the qualification committee were in a mean title-giving mood at that time, were offended by England's presumptuous act of putting up two candidates, and turned both applications down, adding cynically that Penrose (by then in his mid-forties and with the fainting episode at Siegen 1970 and his poor result at Nice 1974 in his history) should try to earn it by future achievements.

There the matter rested for some 15 years. For part of that time Ray Keene was Fide delegate and, knowing he didn't rate Jonathan highly, I felt it was pointless to put his name forward again.

In 1992 or 1993 I visited Bob on another matter and found out in the course of conversation that he was then on the Fide qualifications committee. I suggested he put forward Penrose again. Bob agreed at once, and was emphatic that he would only go for the proper title and not for the HGM version which he regarded as inferior and not for players of true GM strength.

I mentioned Enschede and Lugano and Bob immediately went to his tournament collection and picked out the tournament bulletins for both events. We made out the application between us there and then, and Bob took it to the next qualifications committee meeting.

As he told me later, almost all of these eminent people, chosen presumably for their supposed expertise, hadn't heard of Penrose, knew little or nothing of his achievements, or were unsure whether Enschede and Lugano were sufficient. So they turned to Lothar Schmid, who was present and who they regarded as a fount of knowledge and asked "Lothar, what's your opinion?" As a direct contemporary who knew of Jonathan's achievements, a friend of English chess and of Bob, Lothar gave the application lavish praise and it was granted......

I see that Wikipedia and other sources call Penrose HGM or GM emeritus, but they are wrong.

The above is taken from a 2009 Forum thread viewtopic.php?f=27&t=632&p=7796&hilit=Penrose+grandmaster#p7796

[Matt Mackenzie]

All did rather more to earn it than Alexandru Crisan

His was revoked, what's your point?

That it took a shamefully long time?

[Roger de Coverly]

That it took a shamefully long time?

Google finds a contemporary record
http://www.auschess.org.au/columns/ct/ct160901.htm

It's quite a long time ago now.

[Matt Mackenzie]

Didn't he - farcically - get the title reinstated for a while after that?

That was why I made my comment tbh, hope I am not misremembering.

[NickFaulks]

Here is the list of Honorary Grandmasters, per Wiki. It may be controversial, since I believe that Penrose's title, for instance, was clearly intended not to be "honorary", even though it was awarded in that manner.

Why does Nick Faulks keep repeating this canard? Fide's own profile page for Penrose shows him as GM, not HGM. If you find an error on Wiki (they happen) please get it corrected there instead of repeating the falsehood on this forum.

What have I done? I linked to a Wiki page and indicated where I believed it is inaccurate. If you are so upset and believe it is a simple matter to get it changed, do it yourself.

[Leonard Barden]

Here is the list of Honorary Grandmasters, per Wiki. It may be controversial, since I believe that Penrose's title, for instance, was clearly intended not to be"honorary", even though it was awarded in that manner

I read the words in bold as implying that Fide awarded him an honorary title in error.

[Tim Harding]

I think the GM title is perhaps equivalent to a Ph.D, Some might say D.Sc.

I've heard this several times and I think it to be nonsense, without wanting to sound rude. Universities give out honorary doctorates to people who do no work but the same isnt true of GM titles. A GM title is MUCH more valuable.

Yes it does sound rude. You are equating people who have been given an honorary doctorate because of charitable donations or for other reasons with people who have worked 3-5 years to earn an examined doctorate which in many cases (research as opposed to professional doctorates) is also supposed to make an original contribution to human knowledge.

Generally speaking, people awarded honorary docs do not expect to be called Dr (except the minority who have also an earned academic doctorate), though of course there are exceptions like Irish businessman A.J.F. O'Reilly who insisted the newspapers he owned referred to him as Dr until the British Govt in its unwisdom awarded him an honorary knighthood, after which they were expected to call him Sir Anthony. (He is no longer a newspaper proprietor and since went bankrupt. Sic transit gloria mundi.)

If somebody had an honorary GM but insisted on being called grandmaster I would consider them to be an O'Reilly.

[Stewart Reuben]

There has been a misunderstanding here. When I wrote about idiotic Honorary titles I was not referring to HGM. Most such people were awarded it because they lacked the opportunities in their active days. Have no doubt Jonathan Penrose is a GM.
FIDE is no longer awarding the title HGM. We felt it unnecessary as conditions had changed and players are able to play for the title.

What I was referring to is certain idiotic FIDE pumped up titles. Here in Gibraltar I only have access to limited information and thus only include a few. I think the list is available in the FIDE Golden Book, but I have that at home. I cannot find it on the FIDE site.
1997 Most esteemed Friend of FIDE British Airways. Zambia
1999 Commander of the Legion of Grandmasters Steve Davis. Lennox Lewis
1999 Grand Knight of FIDE Lord Callaghan

I very much doubt the Qualification Commission was involved in any of these.

[Ian Thompson]

What I was referring to is certain idiotic FIDE pumped up titles.

See here for more information on this from Edward Winter.