Winning on time.
-
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:51 pm
Winning on time.
This last weekend I played in the minor section of the Doncaster congress. In one game something happened on which I would like experienced players' advice.
We went into the ending with about half an hour on my clock but three minutes or less on my opponent's one (analogue clocks). We both had rook, bishop, and four pawns. In the next few moves I blundered away my bishop but I played on, partly because of the time situation, but partly because I had two passed pawns to my opponent's one. In the next few moves he took off both my passed pawns but I got his one. I was now a bishop and pawn down but I had created another passed pawn. His time was now down to a minute or less. I continued partly in the hope of queening my passed pawn which was protected on the seventh rank (very unlikely as he had the queening square covered), and partly in the hope of getting perpetual check. I also realised with my king safe from checks, he would take quite a few moves to deliver mate. Soon after, my opponent's flag fell and I had won. To his credit my opponent did not demur or try to claim a draw. I told him that I was sorry to win in this way.
Now to my question. Is there some unwritten rule of chess etiquette that you don't accept a win in this situation? Should I have offered a draw just before the end? Should I have said after his flag fell, "Let's call it a draw" because I could not hope to have won given the position. If he had offered a draw a minute before the end I would have accepted.
Thank you,
Robert
We went into the ending with about half an hour on my clock but three minutes or less on my opponent's one (analogue clocks). We both had rook, bishop, and four pawns. In the next few moves I blundered away my bishop but I played on, partly because of the time situation, but partly because I had two passed pawns to my opponent's one. In the next few moves he took off both my passed pawns but I got his one. I was now a bishop and pawn down but I had created another passed pawn. His time was now down to a minute or less. I continued partly in the hope of queening my passed pawn which was protected on the seventh rank (very unlikely as he had the queening square covered), and partly in the hope of getting perpetual check. I also realised with my king safe from checks, he would take quite a few moves to deliver mate. Soon after, my opponent's flag fell and I had won. To his credit my opponent did not demur or try to claim a draw. I told him that I was sorry to win in this way.
Now to my question. Is there some unwritten rule of chess etiquette that you don't accept a win in this situation? Should I have offered a draw just before the end? Should I have said after his flag fell, "Let's call it a draw" because I could not hope to have won given the position. If he had offered a draw a minute before the end I would have accepted.
Thank you,
Robert
-
- Posts: 10381
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Winning on time.
Did he offer you a draw at any point in the ending?
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
- Posts: 21318
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Winning on time.
There's a written law that your opponent can ask the arbiter to award a draw in these circumstances. It's up to the opponent to decide whether to concede the draw by making the claim, or for that matter simply offering you the draw. It's legitimate also for you to offer a draw if your opponent has seconds left. If the flag falls without any such claim being made, it's a loss unless there's no mechanism for constructing a mate.Robert Stokes wrote:Is there some unwritten rule of chess etiquette that you don't accept a win in this situation?
This is the current FIDE rule (Appendix G, previously 10.2)
Various BCF versions of these clauses have existed ever since quickplay finishes were first introduced around 40 years ago or more.Appendix G. Quickplay Finishes
G.1 A ‘quickplay finish’ is the phase of a game when all the remaining moves must be completed in a finite time.
G.2 Before the start of an event it shall be announced whether this Appendix shall apply or not.
G.3. This Appendix shall only apply to standard play and rapidplay games without increment and not to blitz games.
G.4 If the player having the move has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may request that a time delay or cumulative time of an extra five seconds be introduced for both players, if possible. This constitutes the offer of a draw. If refused, and the arbiter agrees to the request, the clocks shall then be set with the extra time; the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue.
G.5 If Article G.4 does not apply and the player having the move has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a draw before his flag falls. He shall summon the arbiter and may stop the chessclock (see Article 6.12 b). He may claim on the basis that his opponent cannot win by normal means, and/or that his opponent has been making no effort to win by normal means
If the arbiter agrees that the opponent cannot win by normal means, or that the opponent has been making no effort to win the game by normal means, he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.
If the arbiter postpones his decision, the opponent may be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue, if possible, in the presence of an arbiter. The arbiter shall declare the final result later in the game or as soon as possible after the flag of either player has fallen. He shall declare the game drawn if he agrees that the opponent of the player whose flag has fallen cannot win by normal means, or that he was not making sufficient attempts to win by normal means.
If the arbiter has rejected the claim, the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes.
G.6 The following shall apply when the competition is not supervised by an arbiter:
A player may claim a draw when he has less than two minutes left on his clock and before his flag falls. This concludes the game.
He may claim on the basis:
that his opponent cannot win by normal means, and/or
that his opponent has been making no effort to win by normal means.
In (1) the player must write down the final position and his opponent must verify it.
In (2) the player must write down the final position and submit an up-to-date scoresheet. The opponent shall verify both the scoresheet and the final position.
The claim shall be referred to the designated arbiter.
-
- Posts: 1730
- Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:15 pm
Re: Winning on time.
My opinion on this kind of situation is that it is your opponents responsibility to manage his time accordingly. There are many "winning" positions that with 30 seconds left on the clock are most likely lost positions. If you think you can win by playing on then do so. If an arbiter upholds a draw claim due to no progress then so be it.
Perhaps the player running short on time should offer the draw earlier if he wants one. Pushing till there are seconds left as if there was a draw in hand then trying to bail out via the arbiter is a risk they have taken, not you.
Perhaps the player running short on time should offer the draw earlier if he wants one. Pushing till there are seconds left as if there was a draw in hand then trying to bail out via the arbiter is a risk they have taken, not you.
-
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:51 pm
Re: Winning on time.
My opponent never offered a draw. As I have said, I would have accepted such an offer. Someone has since commented that if you have a pawn that could possibly queen then it can't be adjudicated as a draw. Since he is a low graded player like me and not an arbiter then that could well be wrong.
Re: Winning on time.
I agree with Nick. It sounds as though the player who was short of time was clearly winning on position but that is not enough, if there is no quick way to deliver mate. If he plays on without, making a draw offer then he risks losing and has no right to any appeal. To be fair to them, it sounds as though they accepted that.Nick Burrows wrote:My opinion on this kind of situation is that it is your opponents responsibility to manage his time accordingly.
I have been in this situation many times as I tend to play rather quickly and my opponents can get into serious difficulties with the clock. I don't try to blitz them, I just carry on playing at my usual speed. If they offer the draw in a clearly winning position then I will take it, otherwise I have no qualms about taking the win. It was up to them to leave enough time to finish the game.
-
- Posts: 1915
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:44 pm
Re: Winning on time.
Other contributors have summarised the position correctly but a practical example may also help. If I have K+Q against K+P but only seconds left on my clock, I have to choose between (a) going for a quick checkmate, without first eliminating the pawn, in which case I will lose on time if I don't succeed before my flag falls, (b) first eliminating the pawn, after which point the worst case scenario - if I overstep the time limit - is a draw because my opponent cannot legally win with a bare king or (c) offering a draw on the basis that the opponent cannot win by normal means. That's the risk/reward equation I have to solve and, if I get it wrong, the only person I can blame is myself.
-
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:51 pm
Re: Winning on time.
Thank you for your advice. It seems that the agreed verdict is that I was entitled to the win. That is good to know.
-
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 3:45 pm
Re: Winning on time.
Perhaps what this person was referring to is the rule paraphrased by Roger, i.e. "it's a loss unless there's no mechanism for constructing a mate". If you have a pawn that can queen then there will usually be a way to construct a mate!Robert Stokes wrote: Someone has since commented that if you have a pawn that could possibly queen then it can't be adjudicated as a draw. Since he is a low graded player like me and not an arbiter then that could well be wrong.