Stale Chess (variant idea)

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Stale Chess (variant idea)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon May 08, 2017 4:23 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote: The second paragraph relates to a tiebreak system, not to 3/1/0.
Over a six round tournament, using 3-1-0 splits players who would otherwise be tied. Most wins is the same tiebreak as most losses.

What I don't know about the Basman scoring scheme is whether the 3-1-0 logic is followed through to pairings, so that in round 3 a player with a win and a loss would be unlikely to meet someone with two draws. If so, then it would appeal to some arbiters by giving them an excuse to use manual pairings.

Andrew Hammond
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Re: Stale Chess (variant idea)

Post by Andrew Hammond » Fri May 12, 2017 8:35 am

I really don't get the movement towards making chess different, if for the reason of opening theory? I mean, really, perhaps at the highest level, and even then based on the games I have played through in the last 6 months from the strongest tournaments, there have been rich middle-games and endgames played. A good way to ensure this has been making players not agree to draws until after certain moves i.e. shamkir was only at move 40!

Perhaps some of you at the lower levels of chess have a memory like a chess engine, but I for one do not, so even looking through opening theory works up to a point, until I can't remember half the moves.

Re stalemate, I have found this rare in top level chess and also, what one may call tedious defences by black, they could call ideal preparation against an opponent who gets frustrated by solid defensive play....

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Stale Chess (variant idea)

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri May 12, 2017 11:34 am

Stalemate itself is rare, but drawing ideas based on a line that would eventually be stalemate are common.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Stale Chess (variant idea)

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Fri May 12, 2017 12:23 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Stalemate itself is rare, but drawing ideas based on a line that would eventually be stalemate are common.

not just 'drawing ideas' but many endings in general. Virtually every rook ending, for instance.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Stale Chess (variant idea)

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri May 12, 2017 6:54 pm

To Andrew Hammond
I first had a letter published in Chess Magazine over 60 years ago about drab draws. Every year the Rules Commission receives comments about rule changes.

Roger, as far as I know, 3/1/0 has never been used in a Swiss. If it were, of course the pairings would have to be as appropriate. You could still use the Seeded Piring system by making it a team competition, with the only results being 3/1/0. Thus, in Roumania, we had 3/2/1/0 and the pairings people used that method. They couldn't understand why I checked the top scores each round to make certain the computer had it right before publication.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Stale Chess (variant idea)

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri May 12, 2017 10:05 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote: Roger, as far as I know, 3/1/0 has never been used in a Swiss.
Basman used it in his Gigafinals very possibly from its initial year. There was at least one year where two players tied with 5/6, but the winner was the one with five wins and one loss.

Alex McFarlane
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Re: Stale Chess (variant idea)

Post by Alex McFarlane » Sat May 13, 2017 10:06 am

Stewart Reuben wrote: as far as I know, 3/1/0 has never been used in a Swiss
The Glenrothes Congress used this method for a considerable number of years though pairing was done on the traditional scoring method.

Marymass tried this system for one year pairing on the points scored but found that for a weekend congress without a huge number of entries it led to too many score-groups and player colour changes* so it was abandoned after one year.

* After round 2 for example the 3 point score group had too many white seekers and the 2 point score group too many black seekers whereas these would have balanced out using the Glenrothes method.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Stale Chess (variant idea)

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat May 13, 2017 8:27 pm

To decide the position and the prizes by 3/1/0, but the pairings by 1/05/0 is, of course complete nonsense.

The Marymass experience is interesting. After 2 rounds 6, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0 are all possible as opposed to 2,1.5, 1. 0.5, 0. Why does one extra score in round 2 make such a difference?
There was no problem with 3/2/1/0 in Roumania. That had 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0. Did the computer do it better?

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