Coaching

Discussions regarding the 70,000 Free Chess Sets for Schools in England.
andrew martin

Re: Coaching

Postby andrew martin » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:05 pm

I can confirm the cost of this pack will be £ 35, if and when we ever get any sets. The pack includes 1 year free basic membership to the ECF for any purchasing school or individual.

Matthew Turner
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Re: Coaching

Postby Matthew Turner » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:10 pm

Andy,
OK, so are we really saying it is 35 pounds to take the coaching qualification (+5pounds for a retake) because a coach would have to apply for a schools' package - this seems more sensible. Do the ECF Guide to Chess and Chess in the classroom exist?

Matthew Turner
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Re: Coaching

Postby Matthew Turner » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:11 pm

Will this scheme go ahead without the free sets? and will the free sets be contingent in taking part in this scheme?

Nick Thomas
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Re: Coaching

Postby Nick Thomas » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:24 pm

Andy.

I can confirm the cost of this pack will be £ 35, if and when we ever get any sets. The pack includes 1 year free basic membership to the ECF for any purchasing school or individual.


Who will promote and sell this pack? What will their commission be?

andrew martin

Re: Coaching

Postby andrew martin » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:39 pm

The ECF to ( Absolute Beginners) Chess does exist and is in the process of being designed. Chess in the Classroom is being written by Richard James and I think it's about half-completed.

This is an ECF pack and will be marketed by them I presume. It has always been my hope and intention that all profit from this and the Certificate of Merit online exams ( which could be considerable) will be ploughed back into junior chess for the good of all. Better clarify with the ECF Board,although I am pretty sure that is the intention.

So you see how frustrating this has all been.

Richard Bates
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Re: Coaching

Postby Richard Bates » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:48 pm

How do you ensure that the person applying for the qualification is the one taking the online exam?

Nick Thomas
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Re: Coaching

Postby Nick Thomas » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:56 pm

Andrew.

So you see how frustrating this has all been.


You have my full sympathy.

If the ECF are marketing and selling this pack then doesn't that mean that it won't be done (properly) ((at all)???

Peter Turner
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Re: Coaching

Postby Peter Turner » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:33 pm

Andrew

I think the vast majority of people involved in junior chess wish the 'Chess in Schools Project' to be a great success. I'm sure contributers to this exchange of views/information have your best interests at heart and pointing out potential 'traps' so thay they can be avoided. In an attempt to pull various threads together, am I correct that currently the following are true:

1. Someone pays £5 and sits (or gets someone to sit) the online examination and is gets a pass.
2. They go to the CRB Umbrella Body suggested by Sean, pay £14 and get an Enhanced CRB Certificate. See: http://www.tmgcrb.co.uk/index.htm for details.
3. Get 2 friends to write references
4. Join the ECF

Does this person qualify for the ECF Assistant Coach Certificate? Potentially this person has never played chess, has never had responsibility for a group of youngsters and could be a most undesirable individual. Yet he could approach schools offering his services and would appear to be qualified. I think our major task is to protect you & the ECF from this possibility.

I'm now thinking of some suggestions.

ChessRegards

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Coaching

Postby Carl Hibbard » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:58 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:Will this scheme go ahead without the free sets? and will the free sets be contingent in taking part in this scheme?

I cannot see how if I am honest :?
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Neill Cooper
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Re: Coaching

Postby Neill Cooper » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:35 pm

Nick Thomas wrote:Matt Turner says
assistant coaches will approach schools, saying look you can trust me, I am accredited by the National Body


No Matt it's worse than that. They will say "I am QUALIFIED as a chess coach by the National Body"


I thought that the idea of the assistant coach was that they were, for instance, a teacher in the school or an assistant (e.g. parent) to a coach. One way round the possible problem is that assistant coaches are only qualified for a particular school (or schools), and this is stated on their qualification statement - otherwise their qualification is just like an ECF coach.

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Re: Coaching

Postby Neill Cooper » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:42 pm

Peter Turner wrote:Hi Andrew
I assume that the 9,000 schools who applied for free sets have someone on the staff/a parent etc who has volunteered to co-ordinate the chess acttivity or why would they ask for the sets!?

No, it just means that someone has seen a free offer and not looked a gift horse in the mouth!

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Coaching

Postby Kevin Thurlow » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:16 pm

Going back a few pages, an alleged abuser of boys was arrested in this country some years ago, and then let out on police bail, rather surprising as there were 42 complainants. (It would I think be normal to take him to court first and oppose bail if requested.) He then left the country. When I expressed shock to a very senior member of BCF, he looked up at me and said, "Oh yes, we all knew what he was doing." I expressed more shock and asked if he had similar tastes... Since then he has said that it was a complete shock to him as well. Interestingly, a BCF statement to the magazine "Chess" admitted that they had heard the accusations before the individual had been appointed.....
I rather feel that he should not have been given the job, given the number of accusations already made, (though obviously he should have been given the opportunity to show that the accusations were without foundation), and that the police officer who decided to release him should have faced disciplinary action at least, not that it would achieve much.
Of course, if the individual does ever face trial and is found guilty, there could be a large bunch of people then in court, facing conspiracy charges.....
The point about the CRB check is that (a) it needs to be filled in correctly and (b) a clean one only means that nothing is known yet. However, it is better than nothing and might act as a deterrent.
Then you find that organisations appoint someone, despite a question mark on his CRB check.....
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David Robertson
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Re: Coaching

Postby David Robertson » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:06 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote:If the ECF is going to embark on hundreds of people becoming involved with children it really has to make very sure the systems are correct. There are predators out there who will take advantage of a poor system to gain access to children


This is getting a bit feverish. If we're not careful, the perception of the risks involved will stymie all action. So two points: first, notwithstanding the outrage widely expressed about pedophilia and our desire to safeguard the young from abuse, sexual crimes by strangers against children remain very rare. Children are as likely, if not more likely, to suffer at the hands of a family member. There is not alot ECF can do about that. Second, requiring ECF to get its child protection systems up to the mark is too much to expect. Little else the ECF does is up to the mark. This is not just another cheap shot; it's a brutal fact of life we have to live with.

So what to do? To start with: focus on what ECF can and should do - its core business. It's not a chess coaching agency. It doesn't supply coaching; and generally, it doesn't buy it in either. But it is a licensing body. It can set professional coaching standards; and award a license to practice to those who meet those standards. Once accredited, an ECF coach is qualified to coach under whatever limitations are defined by the license. That, in my view, is the limit of ECF's competence.

Therefore, what of child protection? Clearly ECF needs its own child protection policy, not least because it runs junior teams. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to take on responsibility for the CRB status of every ECF accredited coach. That's just asking for trouble. Instead, the ECF should load that responsibility onto the coach-client relationship. It is the client's responsibility to question the coach's CRB status, and the coach's responsibility to provide a satisfactory answer. The ECF can protect itself by publishing guidelines on best practice, and probably maintain a List 99, but otherwise stand clear.

Finally, mention of List 99 reminds me that the discussion on this thread has focussed exclusively on CRB issues with the attendant assumption that sexual abuse is the only source of concern. We need to do better than that. No one should work with children if they are liable to violent or unstable behaviour; if they encourage cheating or improper behaviour; if they abuse drugs or alcohol; if they sponsor deception; and so on.

That should still leave one or two chessplayers eligible to become a coach :roll:

David
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John Upham
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Re: Coaching

Postby John Upham » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:45 pm

Ernie Lazenby wrote: I was not aware that the BCF knew there was questions surrounding him before he was appointed thats very shocking!


It was so well known at the time that there was a standard joke doing the rounds :

"You must be an **** junior as you seem to be walking with some difficulty!" :shock:

I had my concerns about this guy even before I was "informed" and I was 16 at the time so it appeared to be one of the best known secrets in the chess world at the time.
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Matthew Turner
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Re: Coaching

Postby Matthew Turner » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:13 am

David,
You are right that we shouldn't be solely focussed on sexual abuse. I actually think it is quite unlikly that anyone would qualify as an assistant coach in order to sexually abuse children. However, let's say that an assistant coach committed a financial fraud eg. They organise a trip to the London Junior Championships, get the juniors to pay £100 upfront and then simply run off with the money. Can you imagine the bad press that the ECF would get? John Smith who has little chess knowledge qualified by an online exam and was able to get access to kids. Mrs. Johnson says Christmas ruined. Latest in a string of abuses by chess coaches. I think you have to ask is it worth the ECF awarding coaching qualifications - there are clearly risks involved and it really depends on your evaluation of the potential benefits to the ECF

Carl,
You are implying that the schools package would not happen without the free sets. I do not see that this is a given. However, it would be very disappointing if this were the case. Presumably the ECF has spent money on acquiring DVDs and is presumably paying Richard James for producing his chess in the classroom book. If the project is just shelved what happens to these? Who owns the copyrights?


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