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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:39 am 
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David, the ECF does have a child protection policy. See http://www.englishchess.org.uk/organisa ... _apr05.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:34 pm 
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A number of points - it is certainly more likely that children will be abused (sexually, physically, mentally etc,) by a family member than by a stranger

The fact that a certain junior team walked into a tournament some years ago to be greeted by a regular poster on this forum with the loud comment, "Here come X's bum boys" would suggest that there were suspicions.....

ECF does have a Child Protection Policy, but it is not well-written..... All the CPPs I've seen seem to be there solely so the organisation can say they've got one.

I really don't understand the police bail thing - they had a large number of statements already, and it is alleged that when they went to arrest him, he was in bed with a boy, so why not ask a magistrate? (You don't need to be Inspector Morse to think there's a problem there.) People have been charged with a lot less evidence than that, only for the charge to be dropped later. Admittedly in those days, abuse of children was not taken seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:29 am
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Location: London
Sexual abuse is normally perpetrated by a family member or close friend of the child. It is highly unlikely that CRB checks can prevent ANY sexual abuse of children. The idea of the CRB check just provides the Police with a nice little earner for providing a "clean reference" to people who are highly unlikely to abuse children.
Most paedophiles don't get caught unless they are very stupid. Many paedophiles have other adults covering up for their behaviour either from shame, indifference or the silence engendered by the rest of the family.
Contrary to popular belief 99% of men do not carry out acts of paedophilia. Also women are known to be paedophiles but this is rarely mentioned.
These days accusations of paedophilia are rife - mainly from the Liberal elite who seem to be afflicted with filthy minds and a desire to see the actions of a paedophile in every action involving an adult and child.
As a result we have fewer volunteers and father figures just when children are in need of them.
Children are in greater psychological danger from the distorted mentality of a few brainless adults who continually search for an "ulterior motive"
Maybe these are the very people who should be kept away from children rather then the many genuine volunteers who are forced to justify their behaviour should they pick up a child who has fallen and hurt themself or wipe away a few tears.
Louise

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:09 pm
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In these dark days where everyone is a potential paedophile unless the police have actually proved you are one, is it still "safe" to shake the hands of a junior at the start or end of a game, or does this give the police the proof they require?


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:22 pm 
I am glad that some rational thinking has finally been added to this sometimes ludicrous thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:35 pm 
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[quote="Ernie Lazenby
Just remember that the BCF had someone who was abusing children and they knew there was grave concerns- do we want a repeat? I think not.[/quote]

Would a CRB check or a Child Protection Policy have stopped Eley?


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:38 pm 
I agree Ernie,but surely after running all the checks, we can't just down tools and wring our hands saying anything we do is too risky.

Mind you, the group of ECF Assistant Coaches that masterminded the Great Train Robbery may rather compromise this argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:49 pm 
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Ernie
You are quite wrong that those who are abused feel that they can only speak out in today's "enlightened age"
I was sexually abused for the first time aged nine by the baby sitter. I contracted a STD and was quietly and discreetly treated by the family GP.
When I was eleven my step father began taking an interest in me. I was effectively sold to buy a house by my mother. A family friend spying my vulnerability moved in for the kill when I was thirteen.
Aged fourteen I ran away from home and a relative called tthe Police who listened to my story and returned me to the custody of my guardians.
The point I was making was that children are usually endangered by those close to them - this would include Childrens Homes.
I was never sexually abused by a strange male or female. It was always someone known and trusted within the family circle. Care homes act as Locum Parentis so for abuse to occur there is not surprising.
There is stereo typing about sexual abuse both regarding the people who commit the crime and the people who have the unwanted attentions foisted upon them.
I have never minded speaking openly about it .In my opinion I could teach those who know nothing - something about it. There are worse things then sexual abuse. Unfortunately society is now teaching young people that their life is effectively destroyed should they suffer it.Whereas survival is a better option both for person and as a well aimed kick in the teeth for the abuser.
You might have noted that I do not use the word victim. This is because a person can either choose to be labelled victim or they can choose to be a survivor and not contribute towards the "victim industry"
Silence still prevails with genuine cases of abuse. On this forum a name was carefully skirted around - Brian Eley
Louise

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:33 pm 
The candidness is appreciated, but a situation that occurred in the past could easily crop up again,no matter how many checks are run. The ECF would be powerless do do anything to stop it.

What does everyone want; to abandon the whole project ?


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Ernie Lazenby wrote:
I agree with you about not being a victim thats how I feel, I set about doing the very best I could in life to prove that I could amount to something and when I did I made very sure my father knew it. You may not like this but when he died I stood over his coffin and said 'well I am still here you bastard'

Ernie
I couldn't agree with you more. I have spent years being the family blacksheep for daring to criticise the things that were done to me. My mother used to beat my brother and starve me. Many a time I got punched by my stepfather and I actually hit him back. It is the only language these people understand I'm afraid.
I have written my autobiography (not a whiny version) Quite a bit of my writing has been published so I'm hopeful that this will be successful.
I'm not greatly concerned with Andrew's opinion of these posts.At my age I don't seek approval :lol:
Louise

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:03 pm 
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Ernie
The BCF have been known for covering up unpleasantness involving chess and officials. I'm not convinced the ECF would be an improvement.
I was struck in the face in 1994 at a tournament. Numerous witnesses admitted that it had occurred - but they weren't going to tell the enquiry that yes it had happened and my version of events wasn't requested. They chose the easy way out and remained silent.
When push comes to shove it is rare for a person to stand up and be counted.
Louise

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:06 pm 
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First of all, I would say that as far as I know Brian Eley has never been convicted of any crime and he cannot, and actually should not be found guilty on the basis of speculation and rumour. So, let's be careful what we say about an ongoing case.
Secondly, it is quite unlikely that a CRB check would ever unmask a paedophile. However, the ECF need to carry out (or have carried out) CRB checks to remain in line with government policy and at least provide some defence in the event of something going wrong.
I think Andy's policy with assistant coaches is perfectly sensible, but I think you have to ask the question is this title required? We know there are risks, so what are the benefits? If you believe that this will lead to more people (parents and teachers) teaching chess in schools and/or it will raise substantial revenue for the ECF then you should go for it, if not then just leave it. That will not stop parents and teachers using their free sets.


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:13 pm 
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Mathew
I know of three male chess players who had Brian Eley attempting to force his attentions on them. I'm not going to embarrass the guys by naming them but neither am I going to be careful what I say about Brian Eley. There is no case currently being held featuring Eley and as a result sub judice does not apply.
As for Government policy - we all know where that has lead us recently with huge bail outs for incompetency and recklessness
Louise

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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:23 pm 
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Matthew
Brian Eley skipped Police Bail and immediately left the country - I am sure he did this due to his innocence. There are references to his "crimes" across the net, yet he has brought no libel cases.
Let these facts speak for themselves.
I too know of two people who had dealings with him.

Andrew
I think anything that can help coach players of all strengths and ages is obviously useful to this nation's chess prowess - but in this day and age many people are put off by the legal loopholes they need to jump through. Loopholes usually created in knee-jerk reactions.
Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Coaching
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:36 pm 
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Gary,
certainly jumping bail tends to create a bad impression. However, Brian Eley could claim that he only did this because he couldn't get a fair trial. If he ever returned to the country his lawyer could print out all the references to his client on the Internet and claim that he had stood trial by media and was unable to get a fair hearing. If you are not worried about giving Mr. Eley a defence, however tenuous, then say whatever you want.


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