British Equivalent of US National Master title ?!

[Tryfon Gavriel]

Hi all

Given the United States Chess federation gives a title of "National Master" to anyone above 2200, do you think it would be a good idea potentially for players above ECF 190 or ECF 200, to get some sort of local title like "British National Master" ?!

There might be a practical advantage to this, in that some Internet chess sites give free membership to "titled players" - and don't seem to discern between FIDE awarded titles and national titles. Also it might be good for ego, and also stimulus for players to try and get above ECF 190 or 200. Of course also a lot of people will never make it to the FIDE title of Fide Master, and might have a FIDE rating somewhere between 2000 and 2300 for some time. So they wouldn't ever become FIDE Masters. But currently it seems a little unfair that US players can reach USCF 2200 and above and become "National Masters".

Tryfon

[Roger de Coverly]

Given the United States Chess federation gives a title of "National Master" to anyone above 2200, do you think it would be a good idea potentially for players above ECF 190 or ECF 200, to get some sort of local title like "British National Master" ?!

There's already a "fiver for a title" scheme -
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/archive1 ... points.pdf

This goes as low as a grade of 85. The highest award is for a grade of 180.

[Stewart Reuben]

We dropped the BCF Master title when it became unpopular as it is easier to become an IM. Peter Clarke, Leonard Barden, Michael Franklin all still hold the British Mastefr title as it was awarded for life.
We also introduced the lower master titles, as they have in Bridge. These are not popular in chess as we have a recognised grading system.
I am a USCF Master as I am 2200+. That is held in high esteem in the US, or was 40 years ago!
I am an International Candidate Master. That is for every being 2200 or higher FIDE. I must consider that to be slightly valuable as I devised the title and was the first person awarded it.
Stewart Reuben

[John Saunders]

The BCF also used to confer a non-permanent title of 'British Expert' (BX) on players who were graded 200(+) on at least two successive lists (please correct me if I have the eligibility wrong) - back in the early 1980s, I think. Similarly, there was a 'Candidate Expert' (CX) title for people who achieved 175 (I think) on at least two successive lists. As soon as you dropped below the threshold, you lost the title. I think the same non-permanence applies to the USCF National Master title (but might be wrong). Not sure why the BX and CX titles were dropped - perhaps they were replaced by the national/regional/county master title scheme. I thought the BX/CX titles made more sense as they didn't devalue the word 'master' as did the later BCF/ECF initiative. Like Stewart, I am entitled to apply for the FIDE 'Candidate Master' title but have never done so because (a) it costs money, and (b) I feel slightly uneasy about claiming 'mastery' over a game which has, for more than 40 years, mastered me. That said, if Stewart can demonstrate some tangible, specific benefit which might accrue from my applying for it, I may climb down from my high moral position and cough up the cash.

[Sean Hewitt]

I am an International Candidate Master. That is for every being 2200 or higher FIDE. I must consider that to be slightly valuable as I devised the title and was the first person awarded it.
Stewart Reuben

Stewart,

The CM title would be considered more valuable I think if FIDE actually considered it to be a title themselves!!

(The CM title does not count as a title for norm purposes).

[Tryfon Gavriel]

Given the United States Chess federation gives a title of "National Master" to anyone above 2200, do you think it would be a good idea potentially for players above ECF 190 or ECF 200, to get some sort of local title like "British National Master" ?!

There's already a "fiver for a title" scheme -
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/archive1 ... points.pdf

This goes as low as a grade of 85. The highest award is for a grade of 180.

I was completely unaware of this - many thanks Roger.

Tryfon

[Tryfon Gavriel]

Thanks everyone for the information and insight

I wonder if it might be a future possibility to simply default the "Regional Master" one to have some equivalence with the US National Master default - and also not to lose it once you get it (a bit like FIDE titles). I think this might help naturally market the title, and perhaps raise interest in the other titles lower down.

For example, on the online rating list, I could imagine if the "RM" prefix was a hyperlink to the application form for other titles, and there were quite a few RMs given as default (as there are quite a lot of players over 190 or 200), that would be really good promotion for the titles page and application page.

Anyway, it's just a thought while I had it - not something I have deeply considered. So it might have quite a few holes in it.

Best wishes
Tryfon

[John Saunders]

I see that a couple of new titles have been added to the pantheon of honours since the last time I checked out the ECF's 'Master Points' system. As well as 'Regional Master' (180 grade achieved two years running), 'County Master' (160), 'Club Master' (130), we now have 'Team Master' (100) and 'Chess Maestro' (70). I was unimpressed about the use of the word 'master' in this context as I mentioned earlier but I was even more amazed to see another lower title created via the simple expedient of translating the word 'master' into Spanish.

In general, this whole business of 'a fiver for a title' (as Roger so aptly puts it) is an uncomfortable reminder of some of the junk emails that I find in my spam folder, offering me degrees and similar prestigious awards at universities for cash. Of course, I realise that there is the key difference that the chessplayers can't simply buy the titles - they have to reach certain levels of expertise. That in itself is reasonable. My point is that the overblown wording of the titles is highly misleading. It makes the achievement of something akin to (at best) a GCSE or A-Level examination pass sound more like an M.A. Also, this horrid mixture of titles must make it harder for a non-chessplayer to judge how strong a prospective chess teacher might be as a player. Imagine some poor person trying to make sense of the following options: taking lessons from Joe Bloggs, who is an ECF-accredited 'chess maestro' (sounds impressive, though you and I know he is only graded 70) and, say, Stewart Reuben who is apparently only a 'candidate master'. Obviously Joe will be the one to go for but maybe give Stewart a try when he finally sits his 'master's exam'

[John Moore]

Hi John - have you nicked Carl's hat.

I recall someone in my general area who offered coaching on the basis he had played in the British Championship - needless to say he had played in a morning event and had a grade of about 125. He was probably fine unless you were stronger than him!!

[John Saunders]

Hi John - no, that's not Carl's hat. Mine's a different colour (grey - goes with my personality). Anyone can select their own hat (or indeed any other avatar) here by clicking on 'User Control Panel', then 'Profile', then 'Edit Avatar'.

[John Moore]

Ah John now I'll waste the rest of the day looking for a suitable avatar.

[E Michael White]

We dropped the BCF Master title when it became unpopular as it is easier to become an IM.

Not sure about this one as in 1964 it was decided any holder of the IM would automatically qualify to be a BM. The last separate qualification limit for the BM I can remember was 4 appearances in the grading list at over 225 or one over 240 and similar combinations in between which I cant remember. There was also the British Candidates Master title CM, for the BM which had similar rules but in addition any outright winner of the Welsh or Scottish championship automatically became a British CM, so there are probably many players who hold the British CM without realising it ! I have in the depths of memory that the Scottish and Welsh chess bodies can independently award a BM title for comparable performances.

[Richard Bates]

We dropped the BCF Master title when it became unpopular as it is easier to become an IM.

Not sure about this one as in 1964 it was decided any holder of the IM would automatically qualify to be a BM. The last separate qualification limit for the BM I can remember was 4 appearances in the grading list at over 225 or one over 240 and similar combinations in between which I cant remember.

Sounds pretty tough to me! Still only half way there - maybe if the new grades don't work properly i'll have a chance...? Or maybe i could have my grades as a junior retrospectively recalculated!

I see that a couple of new titles have been added to the pantheon of honours since the last time I checked out the ECF's 'Master Points' system. As well as 'Regional Master' (180 grade achieved two years running), 'County Master' (160), 'Club Master' (130), we now have 'Team Master' (100) and 'Chess Maestro' (70). I was unimpressed about the use of the word 'master' in this context as I mentioned earlier but I was even more amazed to see another lower title created via the simple expedient of translating the word 'master' into Spanish.

At least the original titles made some sort of sense. There is a logical progression from Club to County to Region, although the levels are probably set a bit low. The last two are clearly just nonsense, presumably based on the idea that the weaker the player the more likely they are to pay for something to raise their status.

[Tryfon Gavriel]

We dropped the BCF Master title when it became unpopular as it is easier to become an IM. Peter Clarke, Leonard Barden, Michael Franklin all still hold the British Mastefr title as it was awarded for life.
We also introduced the lower master titles, as they have in Bridge. These are not popular in chess as we have a recognised grading system.
I am a USCF Master as I am 2200+. That is held in high esteem in the US, or was 40 years ago!
I am an International Candidate Master. That is for every being 2200 or higher FIDE. I must consider that to be slightly valuable as I devised the title and was the first person awarded it.
Stewart Reuben

Hi Stewart

To be honest, I wasn't even aware of the FIDE "CM" title - when was this introduced for getting to 2200 or more?! Many thanks for introducing it to FIDE. Maybe it needs some more publicity if not many people have it, and are potentially eligible for it. I have seen a blog link about it here:

http://www.danamackenzie.com/blog/?p=668

I feel completely out of touch with the title situation. I had been under the impression that Chess titles were just for those getting a 2300+ rating, but this had been made easier because of the increased frequency now of the FIDE rating list - and just needing to have a published rating at 2300 a couple of times. I might be wrong about this though of course.

Thanks all again

Best wishes
Tryfon

[Stewart Reuben]

Tryfon >I feel completely out of touch with the title situation. I had been under the impression that Chess titles were just for those getting a 2300+ rating, but this had been made easier because of the increased frequency now of the FIDE rating list - and just needing to have a published rating at 2300 a couple of times. I might be wrong about this though of course.

The rules changed on 1 July. All you need is to prove you are 2300 (FM) or over or 2200 (CM) or over at some point or other. This can now be in the middle of a Rating Period or even in the middle of a tournament. This has been true for the IM or GM title since 1994. I opposed the change or FM or CM because it is too much like hard work for the Qualification Commission.

When I introduced the CM title, I wanted it to count half an FM for title holders. But it was turned down. Thus it is solely a vanity title. But arguably so are all the titles. Why bother when there is a rating system? The answer I believe is that the quest for these international title is a fuel on which many events run .

E Michael White. It was almost impossible for an English amateur player to become an IM at one stage. Thus the BM title was useful. When title norm tournament became much more popular after 1977 it became easier to become a BM by first becoming an IM and thus automatically a BM.

Andrew Whitely one said the only use of a BM title was for chatting up birds.

Stewart Reuben