ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
Meeting went well and love alex H comment of the meeting.
I do Feel that one of the Meeting should be Face to face (like the AGM and hope someone will proposed it at the next AGM
Also there was just Me and Gareth Ellis who was at the ECF Financial meeting. i know Tim wall dial in but was there for only 30 minutes
No show from
Tina Teotia - Bronze Rep
Robert Dennington - Silver Rep
Luke Russell - Gold Rep
I feel that why are they people want to be a member rep? Angus French was a great rep and always turn up to the meeting, as well as Michael Farthing.
I do Feel that one of the Meeting should be Face to face (like the AGM and hope someone will proposed it at the next AGM
Also there was just Me and Gareth Ellis who was at the ECF Financial meeting. i know Tim wall dial in but was there for only 30 minutes
No show from
Tina Teotia - Bronze Rep
Robert Dennington - Silver Rep
Luke Russell - Gold Rep
I feel that why are they people want to be a member rep? Angus French was a great rep and always turn up to the meeting, as well as Michael Farthing.
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
What proportion of those tournaments are weekend swisses played over 2 or 3 days and what proportion are played over longer periods? How does that compare to England?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:43 pmIn arriving at the three options which Paul has already mentioned, Council appeared to be quite heavily influenced by the need to get more FIDE ratings. It was pointed out that England was far behind most other West European countries in this respect, with Spain being singled out as a typical country where virtually every tournament is FIDE-rated.
I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is that Spain has many more tournaments lasting a week or more than England. There are 12 in Catalonia between April and September, for example. I'd suggest that comparing chess in Spain to chess in England is not comparing like with like. If England wants to be similar to Spain it would need to make a major change to the way tournaments are organised.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
I thought the comment that chess.com has over 4 million UK members interesting. It shows the limited reach of the ECF to the vast majority of people who play chess in our country. I think it is also consistent with the controversial survey of a decade or so ago about the number of chess players in the UK.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
Would it be fair to mention that Spain has tournaments that typically do not have early am starts and the evening round goes late into the night?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:43 pmwith Spain being singled out as a typical country where virtually every tournament is FIDE-rated.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
How is 'UK' determined and how many accounts are active and used regularly?Neill Cooper wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:16 pmI thought the comment that chess.com has over 4 million UK members interesting. It shows the limited reach of the ECF to the vast majority of people who play chess in our country. I think it is also consistent with the controversial survey of a decade or so ago about the number of chess players in the UK.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
No, all you need to get all UK congresses fide rated is... to actually do it.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:10 pmWhat proportion of those tournaments are weekend swisses played over 2 or 3 days and what proportion are played over longer periods? How does that compare to England?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:43 pmIn arriving at the three options which Paul has already mentioned, Council appeared to be quite heavily influenced by the need to get more FIDE ratings. It was pointed out that England was far behind most other West European countries in this respect, with Spain being singled out as a typical country where virtually every tournament is FIDE-rated.
I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is that Spain has many more tournaments lasting a week or more than England. There are 12 in Catalonia between April and September, for example. I'd suggest that comparing chess in Spain to chess in England is not comparing like with like. If England wants to be similar to Spain it would need to make a major change to the way tournaments are organised.
You need
* an NA (e.g. all arbiters that took an Ecf course)
* To follow fide rules
* To follow fide timings (4 hours games for true open, 3 hours games for U2400, even shorter games for lower bands)
* To have everyone gold member, or pay/charge the surcharge, or the problème goes away by having a single ECF membership class
It gets more complicated if you want to do norms, but that's like 0.1% of the volumes.
Having week long tournaments, while nice, is not a prerequisit to solve the underrating issues.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
The weekender I played in last weekend was 40/100' + G/20', which is perfectly valid for FIDE ratings, and I'm pretty sure that most of the players in the Open were already rated.
(Although, as I lost to a player rated 1924, I might be quite grateful that it wasn't FIDE-rated.)
(Although, as I lost to a player rated 1924, I might be quite grateful that it wasn't FIDE-rated.)
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
Absolutely right, Wadih, although you then have to find an available arbiter and - since it's unreasonable to expect him/her to be available for hours on end for free - add his or her fee to your budget. Of course, strictly speaking, the arbiter doesn't even have to be on site as long as s/he can be reached by telephone although that's something widely regarded as risky in the event that a dispute arises. Separately, there's little point advertising a FIDE-rated tournament if most of the competitors are unrated because then the majority of game results won't qualify.Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:38 pm
No, all you need to get all UK congresses fide rated is... to actually do it.
You need
* an NA (e.g. all arbiters that took an Ecf course)
* To follow fide rules
* To follow fide timings (4 hours games for true open, 3 hours games for U2400, even shorter games for lower bands)
* To have everyone gold member, or pay/charge the surcharge, or the problème goes away by having a single ECF membership class
It gets more complicated if you want to do norms, but that's like 0.1% of the volumes.
Having week long tournaments, while nice, is not a prerequisit to solve the underrating issues.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
I can't answer those questions either, although Catalonia chess tournaments presumably benefit from the fact that the region is relatively compact with some 8 million people living in some 125,000 square miles. But your final sentence hits the mark and a significant part of today's meeting felt that a starting-point would be to create a single class of ECF membership, with everyone eligible to take part in FIDE-rated events, rather than retain the present system where gold membership is needed.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:10 pmWhat proportion of those tournaments are weekend swisses played over 2 or 3 days and what proportion are played over longer periods? How does that compare to England?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:43 pmIn arriving at the three options which Paul has already mentioned, Council appeared to be quite heavily influenced by the need to get more FIDE ratings. It was pointed out that England was far behind most other West European countries in this respect, with Spain being singled out as a typical country where virtually every tournament is FIDE-rated.
I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is that Spain has many more tournaments lasting a week or more than England. There are 12 in Catalonia between April and September, for example. I'd suggest that comparing chess in Spain to chess in England is not comparing like with like. If England wants to be similar to Spain it would need to make a major change to the way tournaments are organised.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
Sorry, unclear to me what you're getting at here, John. Is that Justin as in Justin Tyme ?John Upham wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:30 pmWould it be fair to mention that Spain has tournaments that typically do not have early am starts and the evening round goes late into the night?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:43 pmwith Spain being singled out as a typical country where virtually every tournament is FIDE-rated.
We need Justin to help us out here.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
In fairness, the point being made wasn't that the only difference between English and Spanish tournaments was FIDE rating. The point was only that all competitive chess in Spain is FIDE rated.
Now 3 hour games can be rated <2400, you might be able to rate evening leagues if you could meet the arbiter requirement. It might be relevant for those who want to show benefit in single tier ECF membership.
Now 3 hour games can be rated <2400, you might be able to rate evening leagues if you could meet the arbiter requirement. It might be relevant for those who want to show benefit in single tier ECF membership.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
I think this would be a very bad idea indeed. Why is it that a decent number of players are Bronze members and not Silver+ members? Is there not concern about disenfranchising current Bronze members? Has this discussion not been had before when not one but two motions were put to Council to combine Bronze and Silver memberships - something which the paper submitted for today's meeting failed to consider?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 8:46 pm... But your final sentence hits the mark and a significant part of today's meeting felt that a starting-point would be to create a single class of ECF membership, with everyone eligible to take part in FIDE-rated events, rather than retain the present system where gold membership is needed.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
Hmm... I think it's very much worth considering what Spain - and other European countries - do verses what England does: might we do differently? Also, I'd recommend considering Ian's comments carefully.Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:38 pmNo, all you need to get all UK congresses fide rated is... to actually do it.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:10 pmWhat proportion of those tournaments are weekend swisses played over 2 or 3 days and what proportion are played over longer periods? How does that compare to England?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:43 pmIn arriving at the three options which Paul has already mentioned, Council appeared to be quite heavily influenced by the need to get more FIDE ratings. It was pointed out that England was far behind most other West European countries in this respect, with Spain being singled out as a typical country where virtually every tournament is FIDE-rated.
I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is that Spain has many more tournaments lasting a week or more than England. There are 12 in Catalonia between April and September, for example. I'd suggest that comparing chess in Spain to chess in England is not comparing like with like. If England wants to be similar to Spain it would need to make a major change to the way tournaments are organised.
You need
* an NA (e.g. all arbiters that took an Ecf course)
* To follow fide rules
* To follow fide timings (4 hours games for true open, 3 hours games for U2400, even shorter games for lower bands)
* To have everyone gold member, or pay/charge the surcharge, or the problème goes away by having a single ECF membership class
It gets more complicated if you want to do norms, but that's like 0.1% of the volumes.
Having week long tournaments, while nice, is not a prerequisit to solve the underrating issues.
-
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
I was thinking of Justin Horton (and Jim Plaskett), our Spanish correspondent(s).Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 8:48 pmSorry, unclear to me what you're getting at here, John. Is that Justin as in Justin Tyme ?John Upham wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:30 pmWould it be fair to mention that Spain has tournaments that typically do not have early am starts and the evening round goes late into the night?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:43 pmwith Spain being singled out as a typical country where virtually every tournament is FIDE-rated.
We need Justin to help us out here.
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Re: ECF Finance Council Meeting 22 April 2023
Yes, there are two schools of thought on this - the 'significant part' which I mentioned earlier and a second group, seemingly of broadly similar size and of which Angus is a member. Personally, I'm not convinced it's a 'very bad idea' (if one divides an ECF subscription by 52 to get the effective weekly rate, it's negligible) but am inclined to argue against it mainly on the grounds that it's obviously very divisive and I feel the ECF would do better to focus on areas where there's a broad consensus. I'm also of the opinion that the ECF Council - and don't get me wrong, it's full of well-intentioned people - isn't necessarily representative of the wider ECF membership. For starters, today's meeting consisted exclusively of (mainly white) men and I certainly didn't feel anyone related to (for example) the single mum on income support in Huddersfield with two sons keen on chess. So, for rather different reasons, my position isn't too far from that of Angus.Angus French wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 9:19 pmI think this would be a very bad idea indeed. Why is it that a decent number of players are Bronze members and not Silver+ members? Is there not concern about disenfranchising current Bronze members? Has this discussion not been had before when not one but two motions were put to Council to combine Bronze and Silver memberships - something which the paper submitted for today's meeting failed to consider?Roger Lancaster wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 8:46 pm... But your final sentence hits the mark and a significant part of today's meeting felt that a starting-point would be to create a single class of ECF membership, with everyone eligible to take part in FIDE-rated events, rather than retain the present system where gold membership is needed.