ECF Membership Reform

[Roger Lancaster]

Mr Valentine,

The "diversion" arose because Messrs. Lettington and Lancaster spoke above about the £18 being a "bargain", and it is normal on the forum for views expressed to be challenged, if need be.

What I said, as Mr Townsend knows or should know if he cared to read my comment, was that £18 might be "significant" for some but "for most people here it's a pittance". Whether it's a "bargain" depends on a number of factors which is why I chose not to use the word. It's really tiresome having to deal with people who misquote one.

[Angus French]

When I was involved, not too long ago, in club administration and also as a Bronze Members' rep on ECF Council, it seemed to me that there was a class of player, not insignificant in number, who were happy to turn out and play (graded/rated) league matches for their club maybe five to ten times a year - but not interested in much more with what was going on in the chess world. Such people may well not have been interested in what the ECF did, not in the federation's magazine (which I recognise has improved in recent years) or how its teams did in international competitions and sometimes not even in achieving a grade/rating. Sometimes clubs relied on these players to make up the numbers for matches.

Um, discussions like the one here in this thread have been had multiple times on this forum and I wonder why people appear unable to appreciate that there could be a legitimate concern about value for money and affordability?

[Andrew Zigmond]

£18 a year works out as £1.50 a month. I'll repeat that - £1.50 a month!

It wouldn't be your only outlay if you played league chess unless you were somehow fortunate enough not to have to pay a club membership fee and could get to venues home and away on foot (or with a lift offered free of charge or - thinking aloud - free public transport if you were eligible) but £1.50 is a fairly negligible addition.

I have been persuaded (by a chess playing friend as it happens) to try another activity - no I'm not saying what. If anything puts me off slightly (apart from potentially making a fool of myself) it's the cost of joining but then again I suppose it's up to me to get my money's worth. What it would cost me to do this activity competitively I slightly shudder to think and that would be in addition to the likely travel and accommodation costs I already have with chess.

[Andrew Zigmond]

Um, discussions like the one here in this thread have been had multiple times on this forum and I wonder why people appear unable to appreciate that there could be a legitimate concern about value for money and affordability?

As per my post above which crossed with yours most sports and activities require some sort of affiliation to a national body, do they not?

When the ECF membership scheme was introduced in 2012 there was some grumbling from the anti ECF old guard but most people paid. Eight years on when I was welcoming an influx of new members (of all ages) to the club (and following an unprecedented national crisis) nobody kicked off when I said they had to join the ECF. Many more seemed surprised how cheap it was.

[John Sellen]

I find this thread totally unreal
Surely we can all appreciate the work that unpaid volunteers do behind the scenes to keep the ECF running for all our benefit
I think it is ridiculous that someone who is too tight fisted to even join the ECF ( yes you John Townsend ) should have their views given credence on this forum
The thread has ended up discussing the difference in annual membership fees of a few pounds a year. No wonder chess is not taken seriously.
I would hope that we can thank those doing a difficult task in the ECF and also dig a bit deeper in our pockets to support a sport we all love
Remember there is a huge influx of new players and weekend congresses are bursting at the seams .Goodness knows what these enthusiasts would think if they saw all the negative comments on this forum

[Paul Cooksey]

Of course volunteers should be valued. No one disagrees.

I do not think ECF membership needs to be mandatory or should be. It is frustrating that point is constantly misrepresented as an attack on volunteers.

[Roger de Coverly]

£18 a year works out as £1.50 a month. I'll repeat that - £1.50 a month!

If you just play one game, it's £ 18 a month. There are players in league teams who only play once, admittedly often as reserves to avoid a default.

[John Townsend]

Polite note to Roger Lancaster:

David Lettington used the word "bargain". In reply to his contribution, you said: "Entirely agree".

[Kevin Thurlow]

Most of the unpaid volunteers are nothing to do with the ECF. They are the people who turn up at the club, unlock it, get the furniture and equipment out, produce the milk and biscuits they have bought, make sure the right people are playing, and three hours later reverse the process, having done the washing up.

Some players want to just turn up and play a game and have a chat - they do not care about ratings etc. I asked at one club a few years ago and half the players could not name more than one or two of the England team.

Of course ECF membership is much less expensive than playing golf or cricket etc. If you play, it is entirely reasonable that you pay the membership fee. That applies also to members of the England team...

[GrahamStuart]

My 2p view on current membership

As always it is a difficult subject, which depends on Individuals i.e. how much chess you play and what level of membership. Individual's income certainly comes into it as well. Looking at the current Bronze Membership you could quite rightly say if you only played 1 rated game a year as a sub for a team this is not great value. You could also say that if you played 40 rated games in the last 12 months as a bronze member this is great value (or you may not, but that is a different argument).

On top of the membership, players normally have other expenses related to playing OTB chess:
1) Chess Club Fees: £20 to £120 per annum (a guess based on some clubs I know)
2) Venue Membership (A lot of clubs still play in Social Clubs and require players to be members £15 to £50. Although this is another cost there are other benefits to this, reduced (nil) room hire, cheaper drinks etc Normally if you have point 2, then point 1 is lower.
3) Travel - you may live 5 minutes from your club, or 30 minutes. This could be a £0 cost, or £500 cost per year. I live 11 miles away and a 22 round trip 40 times a year probably costs me at least £132 a year

With the ECF membership added on top this is another expense, but this could be 100% extra or 5% extra depending on your circumstances.

What we have done at our club to give additional value for money is to run 4 to 6 internal club tournaments per year, thus giving players who don't play league games / congresses more rated games. This is easily completed through LMS and in addition there is nothing to stop you having other one off games rated through LMS, as long as played under normal circumstances. This could be something that clubs could use to encourage players to join the ECF. Players may or may not be interested in ratings - but I can categorically say that some of the most interested players in their ratings at our club are the ones whose ratings are 1000 to 1200, as they have the same rivalry as the 1700 - 2200 players (pecking order if you will). A lot of the weaker players may (still are) have played golf, 10 pin bowling where you have a handicap and therefore a rating and enjoy this competitive aspect.

If you don't have many internal tournaments to your club is something you may wish to consider to get more value for money for being an ECF member?

Our club - Currently 5 tournaments (1 internal) and 2 more will start when the league finishes.
https://ecflms.org.uk/lms/node/120437/home

I also agree with Kevin re the unpaid volunteers, if you just turn up and play and then leave - maybe think about doing some of the Admin work now and again..... I have been guilty of this in the past.

[Paul Habershon]

£18 a year works out as £1.50 a month. I'll repeat that - £1.50 a month!

If you just play one game, it's £18 a month. There are players in league teams who only play once, admittedly often as reserves to avoid a default.

I am fairly sure you can play three rated standard play games or six rated rapid play games without having to join the ECF. Any more and your club gets charged if you don't pay.

As with most discussions no one is going to change their mind, but it's satisfying to publicise your opinion. Congratulations to the first person to admit, 'Hey, you've made a great point there. You're absolutely right and I've changed my opinion!'

[John Townsend]

John Sellen wrote:

"I think it is ridiculous that someone who is too tight fisted to even join the ECF ( yes you John Townsend ) should have their views given credence on this forum"

Such personal attacks against non-members of the English Chess Federation make me more resolved not to join such an organisation. The decision whether or not to part with one's money should be taken according to each individual's assessment of the benefits of membership.

[Kevin Thurlow]

"As with most discussions no one is going to change their mind, but it's satisfying to publicise your opinion. Congratulations to the first person to admit, 'Hey, you've made a great point there. You're absolutely right and I've changed my opinion!' "

Paul is right - that should be the point of fora.

Sadly, it is not the modern way. I was told recently by a young person that he had blocked someone on Facebook (whatever that is) as they had stated that someone had disagreed with their political views, therefore it was the duty of one of their friends to kill the person who had disagreed...

[Ian Thompson]

£18 a year works out as £1.50 a month. I'll repeat that - £1.50 a month!

If you just play one game, it's £ 18 a month. There are players in league teams who only play once, admittedly often as reserves to avoid a default.

As I'm sure you well know if someone did just play one game there's no requirement for them to pay anything - they are exempt from game fee/membership if they play no more than 3 games in a league.

[IM Jack Rudd]

£18 a year works out as £1.50 a month. I'll repeat that - £1.50 a month!

If you just play one game, it's £ 18 a month. There are players in league teams who only play once, admittedly often as reserves to avoid a default.

As I'm sure you well know if someone did just play one game there's no requirement for them to pay anything - they are exempt from game fee/membership if they play no more than 3 games in a league.

Well, no ECF requirement - leagues and clubs can impose stricter rules if they wish.