SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Richard Bates
Posts: 3338
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:38 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:
Lloyds Bank Masters 1994 woth 295 players and 10 rounds didn't work wonderfully. Morozevich scored 9.5/10. Of course no quarrels with that! But Mainka came second by himself with 8/10 and did not meet Alexander. That feels unsatisfactory.

Stewart Reuben
I think that designing a Swiss pairing system to combat the Swiss Gambit is a near impossible mission. Mainka drew his first 2 games (one famously against Luke). Also there is a long standing rule in Swiss tournaments - how you finish a tournament is always the most important thing. Generally in very large tournaments it often turns advantageous to start slowly - with the exception of tournaments where tiebreak is important (or where some chap gets 9.5/10!)

On principle i think that if one has issues about the 'biasses' that occur within any pairing system one should always operate on the basis that those biasses should be in favour of higher rated players at the expense of weaker players. Because it gives people a route to improving their tournament chances - get better! Being weaker should never be incentivised (which is why prize money should always be higher in stronger sections, but that is a different debate).

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4539
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:24 pm

Richard Bates >one should always operate on the basis that those biasses should be in favour of higher rated players at the expense of weaker players.<

I don't agree. If there is to be bias, surely you meant in favour of higher rated players at the expense of lower rated players. No, I think we should aim for a system which is not biased by previous ratings. Bias it in favour of the stronger player as against the weaker player, well maybe. But the standard seeded system is systematically biased against the players at the top of the second half of the draw.

Jonathan Mestel said 'There is nothing wrong with any Swiss Pairing System. It is how you assign the rankings which is suspect.' That is why we have rating prizes, not based on raw score, but on gain in rating in the actual event. We could also rank everybody by their TPR or iterated TPR. But that would be very hard to explain.

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4539
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:26 pm

I should have written.
The Dubov and Burstein systems try to go some way towards mitigating the Swiss Gambit.

Stewart

Alex Holowczak
Posts: 9085
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Contact:

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:39 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Jonathan Mestel said 'There is nothing wrong with any Swiss Pairing System. It is how you assign the rankings which is suspect.' That is why we have rating prizes, not based on raw score, but on gain in rating in the actual event. We could also rank everybody by their TPR or iterated TPR. But that would be very hard to explain.
At the e2e4 events, the rating prizes are awarded in bands, and the winner is the player(s) with the highest W-We.

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4539
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:49 pm

Presicely what we do. It is only logical.

Stewart

Keith Arkell
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:10 am

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Keith Arkell » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:17 pm

David Gilbert wrote:

PS: Will we see Keith again this year - just so the Night Watchman at Pond's Forge can be warned!
It appears that you will indeed see me David, but worry ye not, o inputters of games, for I shall be there in a none-playing capacity. I have agreed instead to do some coaching for the Chevannes Chess Academy.

David Gilbert
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:03 am

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by David Gilbert » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:15 pm

Shame you won't be seen slugging it out over the board after everyone else has had their supper! But good to hear you'll be running coaching sessions - I could do with some myself, well a lot actually!

Sabrina Chevannes
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 1:53 pm

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:38 pm

Keith is a fantastic coach and so glad to have him as part of the CCA coaching team. We will be setting up more coaching with him in the future so if you are interested, then look out on my website in the future

Stewart Reuben
Posts: 4539
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: writer

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:56 pm

Does this appear yet on the British Championship website?

Stewart Reuben

Michele Clack
Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Michele Clack » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:03 pm

Well done Sabrina getting Keith Arkell. Your chess academy seems to be going from strength to strength and is a great achievement.

LozCooper

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by LozCooper » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:10 am

CJ has asked me to update this thread by saying that Jovanka Houska has now confirmed that she will play at this year's British Championship.

cjdemooi
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:43 pm

SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by cjdemooi » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:17 am

As requested, here are the basic accounts for the British Championships (obviously, I can't reveal individuals' details so it's a general overview)

The main expenses were -
1. Increased prize fund
2. Halved junior entry fees
3. Player conditions

The income I was able to secure was -

£1500 - Staunton Memorial Dinner
£15000 - Sponsorship
£1000 - JRT
£16835 - Donation

I believe there was about a £4000 surplus from last year's tournament which was also used

Sean Hewitt

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:38 am

Thanks CJ. I think you've undersold yourself! Wasn't the Nigel Short simul tour making a contribution too?

cjdemooi
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by cjdemooi » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:39 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:Thanks CJ. I think you've undersold yourself! Wasn't the Nigel Short simul tour making a contribution too?
There was £500 from the simul tour but I instead gave that to Women's Chess instead

User avatar
David Grobler
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:22 pm

Re: SO WHO'S GOING TO SHEFFIELD? I AM!

Post by David Grobler » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:42 pm

cjdemooi wrote:
There was £500 from the simul tour but I instead gave that to Women's Chess instead
ahh.....everybody duck.....I fear the fall-out from CJs comment may be intense.... :)

Post Reply