99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
John McKenna

Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by John McKenna » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:21 am

It would be a heavy burden on Lee, who has neither transportation, lodging nor the tidy sum required - as an entry fee - that taking up the place on offer in the top tournament would require. But it is the kind of stuff that dreams are made on.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:51 am

Sean Hewitt wrote:Leicestershire have the right to nominate someone to play in the British Championships as we are an MO. It looks as if we may struggle to find someone local to nominate this year so, if any forumite would like to play in the Championships but is not qualified, let me know and we will consider nominating someone from outside of the county.

It seems better to me for us to utilise the option is someone wants to play.
Why do MOs get to nominate someone to play in the British Championships? Are you seriously offering to nominate anyone (even those from outside Leicestershire)? Surely those playing in the British Championship should have gone through a qualification or selection process and have earned their right to play. If if no-one meets the criteria set up by the nominating body, then just say that no-one met the criteria this year.

David Sedgwick
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:08 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Why do MOs get to nominate someone to play in the British Championships?
Up to and including this year, Counties which were MOs had the right to nominate a player. It was designed to encourage the adoption of the MO system. With the advent of the Universal Membership Scheme, the Regulation is likely to be discontinued.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:12 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Are you seriously offering to nominate anyone (even those from outside Leicestershire)? Surely those playing in the British Championship should have gone through a qualification or selection process and have earned their right to play.
Qualification through playing events is only one way to get to play in the British.
http://britishchesschampionships.co.uk/entries/how-to-qualify-for-the-british-championship/ wrote:Qualification by Nomination

7. Nominees of Chess Scotland, Welsh Chess Union, Ulster Chess Union, Irish Chess Union, Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man.

8. The Champion, or nominee, of each of the English Chess Unions

9. One nominee of each of the English Counties practising the membership only system

10. One nominee per Officer of the Director of Home Chess, the Director of Junior Chess and the Manager(s) of the British Championships.
Nothing says that our nominee has to be from Leicestershire. I thought that, as we seem to have no one local interested in playing, that if someone desperately wanted to play then nominating them so that they could would be a good use of our nomination rather than letting it go to waste. I prefer to encourage people to play chess if I can. I used the e2e4 nomination awarded for winning the Congress of the Year title in the same way, letting an enthusiastic 2150 play who had not qualified elsewhere. And of course, it helps to make the event Lara and her team are running more successful by getting another entry.

So, to answer your question - I'm seriously suggesting we would consider nominating someone from outside Leicestershire. Why not?!

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:23 am

Sean Hewitt wrote: Nothing says that our nominee has to be from Leicestershire.
These bits don't say that nominees have to be from the geographical areas either: "nominees of Chess Scotland, Welsh Chess Union, Ulster Chess Union, Irish Chess Union, Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man. [The Champion] or nominee, of each of the English Chess Unions", but I think it is implied. I would have expected that the geographical (county) nature of the MO nominee bit would imply that as well. If nothing else, even if the county MO bit gets dropped, something might be needed to make all this clearer.
Sean Hewitt wrote: So, to answer your question - I'm seriously suggesting we would consider nominating someone from outside Leicestershire. Why not?!
For the reasons stated above. If you find someone enthusiastic and willing who are likely to do themselves justice, that's fine, but that seems something more suitable for "One nominee per Officer of the Director of Home Chess, the Director of Junior Chess and the Manager(s) of the British Championships", rather than a county bestowing this kind of non-geographic patronage merely because they are an MO.

(how many MO counties are there and how many have used this option in the past?)

If the Isle of Man had no-one local to nominate, would you say they should be allowed to nominate anyone from anywhere? Chess Scotland? One of the English Chess Unions (that doesn't have a system to decide on a champion)? Where does it stop?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:33 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: If the Isle of Man had no-one local to nominate, would you say they should be allowed to nominate anyone from anywhere? Chess Scotland? One of the English Chess Unions (that doesn't have a system to decide on a champion)? Where does it stop?
It stops where the organization decides it has no reason to nominate that person. Pre-2004, there was a rule where any Commonwealth country could nominate one player over a certain rating. Trinidad and Tobago used that rule three times to nominate a player who was registered ENG at the time and still is; the British Championship was perfectly happy with that.

(The player in question was me: my approach to T&T was based on having a Trinidadian mother.)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:49 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote: (how many MO counties are there and how many have used this option in the past?)
As far as MOs are concerned I think the list is
NCCU (mostly Lancs and Cumbria players)
Merseyside
Cheshire & North Wales
Northumbria
Durham
Cleveland
Yorkshire

and from the rest of the country
Norfolk
Leics

It's variable as to whether counties use this route.

I don't really know when and why the ECF introduced this. If you follow who has qualified, you see some unlikely qualifiers added to the list. It's been running several years now. I'm not aware if it was ever put to Council, if it was, I would have hoped that Southern delegates would have opposed it for a number of the reasons being mentioned now. If it was intended as a incentive to get stronger players on board in support of their local organisations becoming MOs, it isn't going to work if not
publicised.

The potential to become an MO has been there for at least five years. Outside the NCCU, only two counties have taken it up.

In terms of restrictions, an MO county is only allowed to field players in its county team who satisfy the ECF's County Championship rules. Similarly for their British Championship place, restrict it to those qualified to play for that county. Have the guidelines for 2013 qualification been published yet?

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:01 am

Roger de Coverly wrote: In terms of restrictions, an MO county is only allowed to field players in its county team who satisfy the ECF's County Championship rules. Similarly for their British Championship place, restrict it to those qualified to play for that county.
There's a big difference there in practice, though. Players aren't usually interested in playing for a county they don't qualify to play for (for a number of reasons, including lack of allegiance to such a county, long travelling distances, not being in a team with their friends from the local league etc). However, plenty of players would be interested in playing in the British Championship - and which event or organization nominated them would probably not be a huge factor in their decision.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:08 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:However, plenty of players would be interested in playing in the British Championship - and which event or organization nominated them would probably not be a huge factor in their decision.
The point was that there should be a connection between the player and the organisation doing the nominating. Nominees of the WCU and Chess Scotland might expect to be WLS or SCO .

Requiring players nominated in this way to have taken part in events organised by the MO would be an even stronger rule.

Neville Belinfante
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Neville Belinfante » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:26 pm

Lara Barnes wrote:Absolutely! We are getting entries from corners of the British Isles and further that we have never had before. Just a reminder that there is a bigger and better social programme this year as well.
We have more Arbiters also.
speaking of which, if anyone can offer Neville a lift up from High Whickham...?
I assume that Lara is referring to me, rather than all the other Neville's in the chess world. No-one on this forum has offered me a lift - possibly because they cannot find High Whickham on the map :D
I have had an offer from one of the other arbiters though.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:52 pm

10. One nominee per Officer of the Director of Home Chess, the Director of Junior Chess and the Manager(s) of the British Championships.

If that is the current rule, it has failed to be changed. I wrote it when both the manager of the BC and International Director. It would have been invidious for me to have the right to nominate two people. Lawrence Cooper asked, quite correctly, that the International Director should have the right to make a nomination.

I never wrote a rule about the right of nomination by the MOs. But for the others, I did intend that the nominee be somebody within the framework of he nominating body. Jack Rudd gave the example of himself and Trinidad. But he does have a connection with that country. Why have they never asked him to captain/coach them?

I am happy to travel by train (or car). But I would welcome transport for my luggage to North Shields.
A notice board of this nature could be set up on the website.

It occurs to me there could be The 2nd British Rail Chess Championship from Euston to Newcastle or return. Stuart Conquest has held the title since 1985 which is far too long.

David Sedgwick
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:01 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:10. One nominee per Officer of the Director of Home Chess, the Director of Junior Chess and the Manager(s) of the British Championships.

If that is the current rule, it has failed to be changed. I wrote it when both the manager of the BC and International Director. It would have been invidious for me to have the right to nominate two people. Lawrence Cooper asked, quite correctly, that the International Director should have the right to make a nomination.
From the thread about the British Championship Qualifying Regulations for 2013 and addressed to Lawrence Cooper:
David Sedgwick wrote: You've missed the most important change:

11 One nominee of ... the Director of International Chess

Unfortunately this change has come too late to be of any use to you personally.

Lara Barnes
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Lara Barnes » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:12 pm

Good Idea of Stewart's to swap lifts / ask for lifts. Please share on here for now - I am having a problem with one of the website pages that I am trying to set up as a 'wanted' forum.

David Gilbert
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by David Gilbert » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:05 pm

Another 40 entries this morning. Always good to see the names Stephen Pride, Andrew McQueen and Alan Fraser appear - that boosts the entry by 14! Overall the number has reached 542, compared with exactly 500 for Sheffield on 5 July 2011. It might be a big one!

The entry for Sheffield on 6 July 2011 jumped to 569. It will be interesting to see tomorrow whether North Shields can keep pace with that.

Lara Barnes
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Re: 99th British #Chess Championships 2012

Post by Lara Barnes » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:23 pm

Roger Edwards received 60+ envelopes yesterday and is 90 online entries behind at the moment.....Oh Yes!!!!!!!