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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:32 am 
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This is a response a post by Alex Holowczak in the "Summary of Funding Proposals" thread. I thought it would be better as a separate topic.

Alex Holowczak wrote:
The County Championship rules are being rewritten at the moment. Nothing controversial is necessarily changing; it's just an attempt to clarify these things. It'll go before Council in April. For example, there was previously discussion on here about whether the first time control could not be before move 40 in a national Championship game. This has been amended to make it explicitly clear. The time control for the National Final has been changed. The potential for telephone matches remains, though. :wink:

I trust that a draft of the revised rules will be circulated for comment, at least to Union Controllers and to the Governance Committee. If this had been done with the present rules (as was requested), we might not be needing the current rewrite.

Alex Holowczak wrote:
The time control for the National Final has been changed.

Why? Moreover, I very much hope that you mean "will be changed from 2013 onwards".

Alex Holowczak wrote:
Nothing about membership has been written in to the rules yet, because the result of Saturday's vote is being awaited. There are a few potential rules - I'm not sure which is best:
(1) A county fielding a non-member is disqualified from the event.
(2) A county fielding a non-member must pay a fine equivalent to the rate of membership required to play County chess for each non-member in their team.
(3) A county fielding a non-member will be deemed to have lost the game he plays; his opponent is deemed to have won it, and the county incurs a penalty point.

Thoughts?

I have long favoured a variant of (2), incorporating a more radical change to the sustem of entry fees for the Counties Championships. Instead of charging a fee to each county at the start of the Union Qualifying Stages, the ECF should charge an inevitably rather larger fee for each nomination to each Union at the start of the National Stages. This could incorporate a deposit element which would be returned if everyone who represented the nominee in the National Stages were an ECF member.

Of course the entry fees could be considerably lower if the ECF didn't insist on arranging a venue in Leicestershire at which Kent and Surrey have to play each other, but that's another story.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:41 am 
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David, they will be circulated for comment from those people, yes. Indeed, you were mentioned as someone who should specifically be consulted independent of everything else. ;)

It is indeed from 2013 onwards. Apologies for not being clear.

The proposed time control for the Final is likely to be an incremental version of what we have now, given the Final is played with digital clocks, has arbiters present, and is played at the neutral venue.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:01 pm 
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Alex Holowczak wrote:
The proposed time control for the Final is likely to be an incremental version of what we have now, given the Final is played with digital clocks, has arbiters present, and is played at the neutral venue.

That is potentially contoversial. It could result in the Finals being played under time limits which are completely different from those applicable to the remainder of the competition.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:19 pm 
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A very full list of the proposed rule changes and amendments will be circulated soon to all the relevant parties for comment.

I have on my list Adrian Elwin, David Sedgwick, Alex Holowczak, David Welch, David Smith, E Michael White and any other person who is interested.

Nothing is set in stone, and no changes are proposed for the current season. The matter will be tabled in April and implemented in the season 2012-2013.

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Last edited by Adam Raoof on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:19 pm 
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"The proposed time control for the Final is likely to be an incremental version of what we have now, given the Final is played with digital clocks, has arbiters present, and is played at the neutral venue."

A highly-rated player thanked me at a recent event for watching his time scrambles and recording the game. I was puzzled and said it was what I was supposed to do, and he said that it had not happened at the County Championship finals.

Having different time-limits in the same competition is a good way to confuse people.

First time control should be at move 40, because that is more or less where the game starts...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Having different time-limits in the same competition is a good way to confuse people.


At the moment, counties tend to agree time controls between themselves, particularly when the national stages feature games between two counties from different unions. No union seems to have the same rules for time controls.

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
First time control should be at move 40, because that is more or less where the game starts...


Without wanting to give too much away, the time control will still be at move 40. 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:30 pm 
David Sedgwick wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
The proposed time control for the Final is likely to be an incremental version of what we have now, given the Final is played with digital clocks, has arbiters present, and is played at the neutral venue.

That is potentially contoversial. It could result in the Finals being played under time limits which are completely different from those applicable to the remainder of the competition.

Rather than this introducing two time controls instead of one, it introduces three time controls instead of two as each Union has different rules. I know the MCCU do follow the national time controls but don't the SCCU have 35 moves in something (in fact, don't they already have incremental and non-incremental time controls)?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Adam Raoof wrote:
A very full list of the proposed rule changes and amendments will be circulated soon to all the relevant parties for comment.

I have on my list Adrian Elwin, David Sedgwick, Alex Holowczak, David Welch, David Smith and any other person who is interested.

Nothing is set in stone, and no changes are proposed for the current season. The matter will be tabled in April and implemented in the season 2012-2013.

Adam, thank you to you and to Alex H for indicating that I shall be formally consulted.

As I said in my original post, I would recommend that you consult all Union Controllers (not just David Smith) and, through John Philpott, the members of the Governance Committee. Richard Haddrell is always excellent at this kind of task.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:39 pm 
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At the moment, the rule outlaws incremental time controls altogether in the national stages. The proposal will basically state what the time control is, but allow teams to mutually agree something else. This "something else" includes an incremental time control. At the moment, the rule doesn't specify a default time control if counties disagree about which time control to use.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:52 pm 
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David Sedgwick wrote
Quote:
As I said in my original post, I would recommend that you consult all Union Controllers (not just David Smith) and, through John Philpott, the members of the Governance Committee. Richard Haddrell is always excellent at this kind of task.
I agree.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:32 pm 
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Alex Holowczak wrote:
At the moment, the rule outlaws incremental time controls altogether in the national stages. The proposal will basically state what the time control is, but allow teams to mutually agree something else. This "something else" includes an incremental time control. At the moment, the rule doesn't specify a default time control if counties disagree about which time control to use.


Essex v G Man, Open preliminary a couple of years ago, played at the SCCU incremental time control

Yes, default time control needed, would suggest a standard time control for incremental is introduced too (it then being up to the SCCU and MCCU etc to decide what they want to do

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Mick Norris wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
At the moment, the rule outlaws incremental time controls altogether in the national stages. The proposal will basically state what the time control is, but allow teams to mutually agree something else. This "something else" includes an incremental time control. At the moment, the rule doesn't specify a default time control if counties disagree about which time control to use.


Essex v G Man, Open preliminary a couple of years ago, played at the SCCU incremental time control

Yes, default time control needed, would suggest a standard time control for incremental is introduced too (it then being up to the SCCU and MCCU etc to decide what they want to do


Yes, but to the letter of the law, that was breaking them. So given that the current law is not enforced - and nor would it need to be - it makes sense to loosen it.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:47 pm 
Alex Holowczak wrote:
Mick Norris wrote:
Essex v G Man, Open preliminary a couple of years ago, played at the SCCU incremental time control

Yes, default time control needed, would suggest a standard time control for incremental is introduced too (it then being up to the SCCU and MCCU etc to decide what they want to do


Yes, but to the letter of the law, that was breaking them. So given that the current law is not enforced - and nor would it need to be - it makes sense to loosen it.

In fact, they asked the controller in advance if they could play this time control. The controller said no as it was not allowed under the rules. So they played it anyway. :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:11 pm 
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Mick Norris wrote:
Essex v G Man, Open preliminary a couple of years ago, played at the SCCU incremental time control


On of the G Man players in that match had something of a Nakamura moment, as reported here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1575&start=22

If you combine intermediate time controls with increments, you need the rule to say how the clocks are expected to be programmed. I've never played with both an increment and delayed time addition, I would imagine you have to suppress the inclination not to panic as the clock approaches zero when you are well after the nominal time control.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Essex kindly supplied a written explanation of how the clocks would work in practice (as most of us had never used them with increment) and a short pre-match demonstration

Difficult to know what to say about David failing to pay attention, but having played in the 4NCL he is now used to them

The best team won on the day (unfortunately :wink: ) and like most county matches, our opponents were a pleasure to play against

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