FIDE Law Suit

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby IM Jack Rudd » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:37 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:Is that because all the costs are being borne by the Georgian Chess Federation or there is a backer to cover the ECF's costs?
Either way, I am not sure that it is a good idea to get involved in a court case with the big boys. Whose decision was it? Do council ever have a vote on it?


There's a backer to cover the ECF's costs. It was a decision passed by a majority Board vote.

Peter Turner
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Peter Turner » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:41 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Matthew Turner wrote:On the face of it this implies that the ECF is involved in a potentially $1m court case. Now, I am sure that this cannot be true. However, I would expect the Non-Executive Directors of the ECF to be up to speed on the reality of the situation. Therefore, has Jack got any comments?


The ECF are not going to be liable for any costs arising. This was agreed before we went into this whole thing.


I hope that is in writing in a legally binding document. Could members of the ECF who did not sign the 'White Form' be potentially at risk.

Matthew Turner
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Matthew Turner » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:52 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Matthew Turner wrote:Is that because all the costs are being borne by the Georgian Chess Federation or there is a backer to cover the ECF's costs?
Either way, I am not sure that it is a good idea to get involved in a court case with the big boys. Whose decision was it? Do council ever have a vote on it?


There's a backer to cover the ECF's costs. It was a decision passed by a majority Board vote.


As a non-excutive director have you considered this sort of scenario? FIDE win their case against the Georgian Chess Federation and the English Chess Federation. Kirsan then decides he will exact retribution, perhaps by countersuing for deflamation. Will the mystery backer be there to meet those costs?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Roger de Coverly » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:55 pm

Peter Turner wrote:I hope that is in writing in a legally binding document. Could members of the ECF who did not sign the 'White Form' be potentially at risk.


More to the point, if this was decided before the AGM, what on earth do the ECF Directors think they are doing in starting legal action without even telling the AGM about it. Those at risk, those who have signed the white form first find out about it from the President's report of the organisation the ECF is taking action against.

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John Philpott
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby John Philpott » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:56 pm

Peter Turner wrote
Could members of the ECF who did not sign the 'White Form' be potentially at risk.
No. The White form creates an obligation (a commitment to pay £1 in the event of the ECF being wound up) that would not exist otherwise. Signing the form does not remove a legal liability from an individual, because no such liability exists in the first place in relation to the activities of the ECF, given that it is a company limited by guarantee.
ECF Company Secretary and Financial Controller

Simon Brown
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Simon Brown » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

Has the Board's pro bono legal adviser informed the Board members of their legal position, not just as directors, but as individuals? On the basis of the limited information which has been made available, if I were a director at this moment, I would be feeling extremely uncomfortable.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Roger de Coverly » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:There's a backer to cover the ECF's costs.


Wouldn't the money be better spent on say

conditions for IMs and GMs at the British Championships
or
financing ENG teams at future Olympiads and ETCCs

than point scoring against Kirsan and FIDE?

If you had an election at the ECF Council between Kirsan and serial election fighter Mr None, the serial election fighter would be a clear favourite, but I don't see the ECF has the muscle to pick fights.

Peter Turner
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Peter Turner » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:03 pm

Good evening John

My query was more about the legal status of ECF members had not signed the White Form and thereby possibly not limited their liability to £1.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Geoff Chandler » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:09 pm

Hi ALex Mac and Ian H.

Now how come we never have this much fun in Scotland?

No wonder everyone on the ECF board is tendering their resignations
they are all about to get their well polished slippery asses sued.

What ever you and Lara do Alex. Don't sign the White Form.

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John Philpott
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby John Philpott » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:14 pm

Peter Turner wrote
Good evening John

My query was more about the legal status of ECF members had not signed the White Form and thereby possibly not limited their liability to £1.
I had endeavoured to make the point in my previous post that such individuals did not have a liability in the first place, so there was nothing to limit. The whole point of a limited company is that the liability of the members is limited to what they have invested or guaranteed to the company. In any event, I would not regard somebody who had not signed the White Form as being a member, in the legal sense.
ECF Company Secretary and Financial Controller

Peter Turner
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Peter Turner » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:26 pm

Hi John

Thanks for taking more time to respond in such a clear fashion that even I understand! It could be useful for me to be able to quote you in court should the need ever arise!!!

Only jesting, all the very best.

Peter T

Simon Brown
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Simon Brown » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:31 pm

John, I agree your point about members. But directors' liabilities are personal and unlimited in certain circumstances, and the indemnity (whereby the assets of the company may be used to defray losses and costs arising) does NOT extend to defending proceedings which are not found in favour. Hence if FIDE were to be successful in any counter-claim, the directors would in theory be personally liable. Even if you had D&O this circumstance would almost certainly be excluded.

This indemnity is standard in companies limited by guarantee, which are not normally used to conduct legal action.

What isn't entirely clear to me is the personal liability of other officers. But I wouldn't want to be one.

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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Alex Holowczak » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:47 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:No wonder everyone on the ECF board is tendering their resignations they are all about to get their well polished slippery asses sued.


What the heck are you talking about? No one on the ECF Board has resigned at all, or signalled any intention of so doing.

Simon Brown
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Simon Brown » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:54 pm

Actually Geoff, even if they did resign it's too late now.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: FIDE Law Suit

Postby Geoff Chandler » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:58 pm

Hi Alex H.

Not yet....give it time. OOPS it's too late. (cheers Simon.)

It appears that the left hand did not know the right hand was being sued.

Now do we get to see who has signed the dreaded 'White Form' before it is attacked
with an eraser?


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