Governance Consultation - Council Voting Register

[Krishna Shiatis]

It really is simple - but first you need to take the simple step of answering the question that was was posed by David R earlier in the thread.

The ECF has always looked at problems from the wrong angle - thus the membership, of which I am an advocate, was introduced for the purpose of raising finance so that the ECF could carry on as usual.

Had it been introduced as a method of engaging and enfranchising players - it would have still brought in the same finances but provided a much healthier relationship between organisation and members.

OMOV must become the next step, those who resist it are profoundly wrong. And those who bring up the usual counter arguments of cost and logistics simply lack imagination.

As a first step I would give every member the opportunity to vote for the President - the organisations figurehead. I should deprive Council of that vote

I would then give each member the opportunity to vote on the five year strategic plan for the ECF. In sections. This would then form a recommendation to Council who I truly believe would be swayed by such a vote.

In the medium term I would extend the vote to members on all director elections, but make the term of office two or three years.

Finally - and the hardest part , I would seek to abolish Council

Agree with the most part on this. It would simplify things considerably; though not entirely sure how to overcome some of the logistical problems put forward by Alex.

[Roger de Coverly]

Had it been introduced as a method of engaging and enfranchising players - it would have still brought in the same finances but provided a much healthier relationship between organisation and members.
l

Apologies for always coming back to the same question, but how much would you want to charge and would it an absolute requirement? In other words, not a member, not allowed to play chess.

[Roger de Coverly]

As a first step I would give every member the opportunity to vote for the President - the organisations figurehead. I should deprive Council of that vote

It's a reasonable idea, but how much would it cost? Would the ECF chose it in preference to sending an International team to the Europeans? It wouldn't be satisfactory for it to be conducted on the basis of an open email to the Company Secretary as was done with the voting for the Gold representative.

[Alex Holowczak]

OMOV must become the next step [...]
Finally - and the hardest part , I would seek to abolish Council

So in the long-term, the members would vote on:
(1) The strategic plan
(2) The identity of the Board
(3) Anything else?

Is that more or less democratic than what we have now?

[Martin Regan]

KS wrote:

though not entirely sure how to overcome some of the logistical problems put forward by Alex.

The logistical problems only arise with the assumption that the right to vote carries an attendant right to attend an AGM

Rdc:

but how much would you want to charge and would it an absolute requirement? In other words, not a member, not allowed to play chess.

Any figure would be meaningless. It would of course depend on what the members voted with the five year plan. Any none member could play chess - they just wouldn't get a grade and I'd seek to stop any freelance grading lists.

AH

So in the long-term, the members would vote on:
(1) The strategic plan
(2) The identity of the Board
(3) Anything else?

Is that more or less democratic than what we have now?

Well given that the member at present can not
1) influence the strategic plan
2) vote for their leaders

I'd say far far more.

In answer to 3) There might be one of two other issues that arise which the board needs to consult the membership, but I'd also beef up the powers of the Governance Committee

[John Philpott]

Roger de Coverly wrote

It wouldn't be satisfactory for it to be conducted on the basis of an open email to the Company Secretary as was done with the voting for the Gold representative.

The Company Secretary heartily concurs. I am a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales and participate in the decisions taken on a OMOV basis through an online vote organised by Electoral Reform Services, to participate in which I need to enter a unique two part ballot code that I am advised of by e-mail. This may be the type of route that we should investigate.

The practical problem is the significant number of members for whom the ECF does not hold e-mail addresses. In the case of the gold election, there were in the region of 200 of these, so holding the election did give rise to a certain cost to the ECF.

[Martin Regan]

JP wrote:

The practical problem is the significant number of members for whom the ECF does not hold e-mail addresses.

That is a problem of organizational efficiency rather than electoral procedure

[Krishna Shiatis]

... I am a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales and participate in the decisions taken on a OMOV basis through an online vote organised by Electoral Reform Services, to participate in which I need to enter a unique two part ballot code that I am advised of by e-mail. This may be the type of route that we should investigate.

The practical problem is the significant number of members for whom the ECF does not hold e-mail addresses. In the case of the gold election, there were in the region of 200 of these, so holding the election did give rise to a certain cost to the ECF.

I agree with the first paragraph. Also, could a phone vote be used for those who do not have e-mail? It might be cheaper - not sure of the practicalities.

(Could even have a TV show called 'Chess factor' and eliminate candidates with the least votes on a weekly basis! )

[David Robertson]

Without wishing to impersonate David Robertson

Please, be my guest

I am coming at the problem from a completely different perspective to David too. If you are an eminent Professor I am sure you do have to think things through from first principles

No. I've been through that bit; I can jump straight to solutions. The awkward part is winning consent. That involves, in the absence of absolute power, leading people step-by-step from first principles towards their preferred solution. Ideally it might be my preferred solution too, but not inevitably. I'd like to think I'd invented the process. If so, I'd be rich. Alas, Socrates beat me to it - in 5th C Athens, 2500 years ago. And he died poor, killed by the people he sought to help.

So maybe don't impersonate me

[David Pardoe]

Online voting should be relatively straight forward..
ie, all Members have a Membership number, and should be asked to provide an email contact point/address.
Those who dont will not get to vote...
That gives an incentive to those interested to get cracking. No excuses these days for the majority of people to use the email system. Every library has free internet access..
For those with special needs, ie, the blind, otherwise impaired, they could be sent a mailshot. They might even use a Proxy of some sort. And yes, they have no rights to attend the AGM.

[David Robertson]

Online voting should be relatively straight forward...For those with special needs, ie, the blind, otherwise impaired, they could be sent a mailshot

Oh, oh dear, oh dear. Where to begin? What the f**k to say? My sides are aching

They might even use a Proxy of some sort

Yep. "Does he take sugar?" 'They' know all about proxies.

And yes, they have no rights to attend the AGM

Too damn right. 'They' couldn't get up the steps. 'They' couldn't see or hear what's going on. 'They' wouldn't know how to vote if you smacked them with a kipper.

Beyond f**king satire!

[John Cox]

>Finally - and the hardest part , I would seek to abolish Council

This is obviously a total no-brainer. Is it *really* not possible?! Everyone I know who is involved in English chess in any capacity whatsoever - other than presumably those on the Council - recognises this as a given.

[Mike Truran]

other than presumably those on the Council

Turkeys voting for Xmas?

[Roger de Coverly]

Any none member could play chess - they just wouldn't get a grade and I'd seek to stop any freelance grading lists.

There is a problem that it just doesn't work. Players aren't that interested in their own grade but more in how they stand relative to the opposition. I did suggest that an approach to the ECF's membership and £ 2 Game Fee was simply a local rule that if a game involved an non-member, it wasn't graded. This failed to gain support.

Grading has been going for too long on an universal basis to introduce a members only concept.

I couldn't see Congress organisers being interested in managing a shark pond. They could always insist that all players had to have a grade. That's the same, almost, as a ban on non-members.

[John Upham]

That's the same, almost, as a ban on non-members.

Which other sports allow non-members to take part in competitions that are graded, rated or ranked?

I compete in both motor sport and table tennis and neither of these do. Why do think chess should be excepted?

I've not seen one compelling argument from you that persuades me otherwise.