Compulsory Membership?
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
Roger, my 'misrepresentation' comment didn't refer to that part of Matthew Turner's post.
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
BTW Will you be bringing any teams to the Junior 4NCL?
I wish you the very best of luck with the Junior 4NCL. First of all I like to see new events, but also ones that have innovative formats and the junior 4NCL certainly has that. However, I doubt very much that I will be bringing a team. The first weekend I am organizing a London junior Qualifying event at school which normally raises three or four hundred pounds to support local primary School chess. The third weekend seems to be running alongiside with the National Junior Squad Championships (how does that work?). I assume that would also make it during the Easter holidays. Given that Millfield attracts students from around the World, it is much more difficult to field teams during holiday periods.
I note that the second weekend clashes with another of the England U11 qualifying events.
I wish you the very best of luck with the Junior 4NCL. First of all I like to see new events, but also ones that have innovative formats and the junior 4NCL certainly has that. However, I doubt very much that I will be bringing a team. The first weekend I am organizing a London junior Qualifying event at school which normally raises three or four hundred pounds to support local primary School chess. The third weekend seems to be running alongiside with the National Junior Squad Championships (how does that work?). I assume that would also make it during the Easter holidays. Given that Millfield attracts students from around the World, it is much more difficult to field teams during holiday periods.
I note that the second weekend clashes with another of the England U11 qualifying events.
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
It seems almost impossible these days to organise junior events that don't clash with other junior events these days. I do try to get the dates into the ECF calendar as early as I can, but in this case I obviously failed. Is there perhaps (perish the thought!) just too much junior chess these days?
How do you think we could improve things? Should organisers just continue to add dates to the ECF calendar when their events are confirmed for other organisers to work round as best they can, or is there scope for main junior organisers trying to coordinate dates beforehand? (the latter I suspect might be a bit tricky).
Thank you for your kind words about the J4NCL. It's good of you, and I appreciate it.
How do you think we could improve things? Should organisers just continue to add dates to the ECF calendar when their events are confirmed for other organisers to work round as best they can, or is there scope for main junior organisers trying to coordinate dates beforehand? (the latter I suspect might be a bit tricky).
Thank you for your kind words about the J4NCL. It's good of you, and I appreciate it.
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
Mike,
Yes, I do think that there is too much junior chess. In the end the Junior Director or the ECF needs to battle vested interests and say these are the good junior tournaments (perhaps one per month) that we recommend/endorse). Other tournaments will continue, but they will be regional/provincal events. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening any time soon. In some ways, I don't blame the ECF or a (volunteer) Junior Director for not getting to grips with this problem. However, with the current structure of English chess I don't see a change for the better in the near future (unless the ECF goes under).
Just returning to the question of the J4NCL running alongside the Junior Squad Championships - how does this work?
Yes, I do think that there is too much junior chess. In the end the Junior Director or the ECF needs to battle vested interests and say these are the good junior tournaments (perhaps one per month) that we recommend/endorse). Other tournaments will continue, but they will be regional/provincal events. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening any time soon. In some ways, I don't blame the ECF or a (volunteer) Junior Director for not getting to grips with this problem. However, with the current structure of English chess I don't see a change for the better in the near future (unless the ECF goes under).
Just returning to the question of the J4NCL running alongside the Junior Squad Championships - how does this work?
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
Matthew
Peter Purland and I did discuss this at some length some time ago. As I recall, Peter's view was that the two events are fishing in different ponds, so there will hopefully not be too big a clash. Even if there is some cannibalisation, I expect it will go from the J4NCL in the direction of the Junior Squad Championships, which seems entirely right given that the J4NCL is the junior event (no pun intended). I think the twin advantages of the usual 4NCL benefits package (free playing space, decent venue, space for parents, discounted bedroom rates, commission income etc) were felt to be sufficiently significant to outweigh the potential disadvantages.
To state the obvious, the two events will be played in separate areas of the hotel! But one of the ideas is that the two groups will be able to come together in the evening. Whether that is a good or a bad thing I leave others to judge!
Peter Purland and I did discuss this at some length some time ago. As I recall, Peter's view was that the two events are fishing in different ponds, so there will hopefully not be too big a clash. Even if there is some cannibalisation, I expect it will go from the J4NCL in the direction of the Junior Squad Championships, which seems entirely right given that the J4NCL is the junior event (no pun intended). I think the twin advantages of the usual 4NCL benefits package (free playing space, decent venue, space for parents, discounted bedroom rates, commission income etc) were felt to be sufficiently significant to outweigh the potential disadvantages.
To state the obvious, the two events will be played in separate areas of the hotel! But one of the ideas is that the two groups will be able to come together in the evening. Whether that is a good or a bad thing I leave others to judge!
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
What do they mean by "synchronised games"?David Gilbert wrote:The other vote was to make synchronised games illegal.
It isn't that long ago since it was eight full divisions...David Gilbert wrote:The London League seems to be bucking the trend and is expanding year on year. There are now 4 Divisions (2x12 teams and 2x13 teams) and two Minor Divisions - Under 145 (9 teams) and Under 125 (8 teams).
Lots of clubs use their own venues rather than Golden Lane. Any particular bugbear in mind? Many people find it rather awkward to get to GL.David Gilbert wrote:There was a sigh of relief when Morley College announced their first team would play at Golden Lane next season and no longer play at Morley College on a Friday night!!! That just leaves................
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
I suspect it's playing on Friday night, rather than at Morley College, that other clubs dislike.Paul McKeown wrote:David Gilbert wrote:-- text omitted --
Lots of clubs use their own venues rather than Golden Lane. Any particular bugbear in mind? Many people find it rather awkward to get to GL.David Gilbert wrote:There was a sigh of relief when Morley College announced their first team would play at Golden Lane next season and no longer play at Morley College on a Friday night!!! That just leaves................
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
Paul McKeown wrote:What do they mean by "synchronised games"?David Gilbert wrote:The other vote was to make synchronised games illegal.
It isn't that long ago since it was eight full divisions...David Gilbert wrote:The London League seems to be bucking the trend and is expanding year on year. There are now 4 Divisions (2x12 teams and 2x13 teams) and two Minor Divisions - Under 145 (9 teams) and Under 125 (8 teams).
Lots of clubs use their own venues rather than Golden Lane. Any particular bugbear in mind? Many people find it rather awkward to get to GL.David Gilbert wrote:There was a sigh of relief when Morley College announced their first team would play at Golden Lane next season and no longer play at Morley College on a Friday night!!! That just leaves................
I actually mean "simultaneous games", but I've been watching the swimming!
Ten years ago - in the 2002/03 season - the London League had four Divisions (2x12 years and 2x11 teams). So a growth of 21 teams over that period, but I'm sure people can go back much further to the days of the music hall.
Nothing to do with the venue, more the Friday night with a 6.25pm start. Makes life much easier for the weekend congress goer and of course the bloke who just wants to get down the pub.
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
Mike,
I have no issue with the J4NCL running alongside the Junior Squad. However, there would seem to be a potential difficulty. Lets say we have a School or club team entered and we reach the final weekend. A player might be under pressure to play in the squad Championships to earn a 'norm' and under pressure to support his or her School/Club. That would seem to put a child in a difficult situtaion. I would have thought this situation would crop up quite regularly, because the demographics of junior chess mean that the bulk of players occur in certain age groups. That means that the J4NCL and Squad, however they were originally envisaged are effectively catering/looking to attract the same set of players.
I have no issue with the J4NCL running alongside the Junior Squad. However, there would seem to be a potential difficulty. Lets say we have a School or club team entered and we reach the final weekend. A player might be under pressure to play in the squad Championships to earn a 'norm' and under pressure to support his or her School/Club. That would seem to put a child in a difficult situtaion. I would have thought this situation would crop up quite regularly, because the demographics of junior chess mean that the bulk of players occur in certain age groups. That means that the J4NCL and Squad, however they were originally envisaged are effectively catering/looking to attract the same set of players.
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
Matthew
Yes, I agree that that's possible. I really went by Peter's view that although there might be some overlap between the two pools it was unlikely to be significant. Also, from what I saw last year the standard in the J4NCL spanned a whole range of abilities, and it was only at the top level that some of the players might have been seriously in contention for national honours. Moreover, most J4NCL teams seem to run on a squad basis (like their adult counterparts), so hopefully other juniors can slot in should that happen.
I think the overall view was that the (real) advantages outweighed the (potential) disadvantages. But no doubt we will find out in due course!
Yes, I agree that that's possible. I really went by Peter's view that although there might be some overlap between the two pools it was unlikely to be significant. Also, from what I saw last year the standard in the J4NCL spanned a whole range of abilities, and it was only at the top level that some of the players might have been seriously in contention for national honours. Moreover, most J4NCL teams seem to run on a squad basis (like their adult counterparts), so hopefully other juniors can slot in should that happen.
I think the overall view was that the (real) advantages outweighed the (potential) disadvantages. But no doubt we will find out in due course!
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
I know the feeling! The best we can do is to get events in to the ECF calendar as early as possible. It is great that the ECF calendar does highlight junior only events as it does make checking easier.Mike Truran wrote:It seems almost impossible these days to organise junior events that don't clash with other junior events these days. I do try to get the dates into the ECF calendar as early as I can, but in this case I obviously failed. Is there perhaps (perish the thought!) just too much junior chess these days?
Perhaps somewhere on the ECF junior website we could also have a list of provisional dates. But the risk is people don't look at it. If you put a provisional date into the main ECF calendar some people would put it into their diary and forget it was provisional.Mike Truran wrote:How do you think we could improve things? Should organisers just continue to add dates to the ECF calendar when their events are confirmed for other organisers to work round as best they can, or is there scope for main junior organisers trying to coordinate dates beforehand? (the latter I suspect might be a bit tricky).
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
I don't know anything about an ECF branded site, but the "parent" paysubsonline site has moved onCarl Hibbard wrote:Any sign of the new membership site?
https://paysubsonline.com/club_member_r ... clubID=352
Since I last looked, the £ 1 discount has been applied to the one year membership and three year rates added (incorrectly?).
Still nothing for the multitude of rates for renewing existing Direct members.
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
Not much before the early to mid 90's, perhaps.David Gilbert wrote:I'm sure people can go back much further to the days of the music hall.
Just using the Wayback Machine, one sees for instance that in the 2000-01 season, there were five full divisions. I'm sure you don't have to go back more than a decade to find another full division or two. As you say there has been some degree of recovery, but the formula/grading limited divisions are hardly the same as the full fat lower divisions there were not so awfully long ago.
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Re: Compulsory Membership?
Back on topic, tonight's MCF AGM voted:
No compulsory membership to play in the Manchester League
The MCF will not become an MO
No compulsory membership to play county chess for Greater Manchester (in the Union stages)
A one-off reduction in the entry fees for clubs for next season
Meeting lasted for over 3 hours, lots discussed nearly none of which helps develop chess in and around Manchester
Even worse, I was re-elected
No compulsory membership to play in the Manchester League
The MCF will not become an MO
No compulsory membership to play county chess for Greater Manchester (in the Union stages)
A one-off reduction in the entry fees for clubs for next season
Meeting lasted for over 3 hours, lots discussed nearly none of which helps develop chess in and around Manchester
Even worse, I was re-elected
Any postings on here represent my personal views