Compulsory Membership?
-
- Posts: 10362
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Compulsory Membership?
MCF Council had decided to support compulsory membership for the Manchester League and we are due to have an EGM in just over a month
However, now that the 85% rule for reduced Game Fee has been dropped, and with it the exemption for ungraded players with up to 3 games, I don't see that we need to support compulsory membership any more - we could continue, as at present, to bill clubs for (much increased) game fee
Obviously, game fee at £2 means that juniors playing at least 4 games, and adults playing at least 6, should join the ECF - it may be that our clubs decide on compulsory ECF membership
Conversely, we might insist on compulsory membership for G Man county players (as the MCF currently pays Game Fee for county matches)
However, now that the 85% rule for reduced Game Fee has been dropped, and with it the exemption for ungraded players with up to 3 games, I don't see that we need to support compulsory membership any more - we could continue, as at present, to bill clubs for (much increased) game fee
Obviously, game fee at £2 means that juniors playing at least 4 games, and adults playing at least 6, should join the ECF - it may be that our clubs decide on compulsory ECF membership
Conversely, we might insist on compulsory membership for G Man county players (as the MCF currently pays Game Fee for county matches)
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Re: Compulsory Membership?
Not sure what's changed Mick. The 3 games exemption was for counting towards the 85% (wasn't it?) - in other words, you would still have had to pay game fee for their games.Mick Norris wrote:MCF Council had decided to support compulsory membership for the Manchester League and we are due to have an EGM in just over a month
However, now that the 85% rule for reduced Game Fee has been dropped, and with it the exemption for ungraded players with up to 3 games, I don't see that we need to support compulsory membership any more - we could continue, as at present, to bill clubs for (much increased) game fee
Obviously, game fee at £2 means that juniors playing at least 4 games, and adults playing at least 6, should join the ECF - it may be that our clubs decide on compulsory ECF membership
Conversely, we might insist on compulsory membership for G Man county players (as the MCF currently pays Game Fee for county matches)
-
- Posts: 2151
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Re: Compulsory Membership?
So far as I understood it, non-members playing three or less games in a competition wouldn't have been counted in the 85% threshold calculation. But game fee for their games would still have been due.Sean Hewitt wrote:The 3 games exemption was for counting towards the 85% (wasn't it?) - in other words, you would still have had to pay game fee for their games.
-
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Re: Compulsory Membership?
I thinks that's what I said.Angus French wrote:So far as I understood it, non-members playing three or less games in a competition wouldn't have been counted in the 85% threshold calculation. But game fee for their games would still have been due.Sean Hewitt wrote:The 3 games exemption was for counting towards the 85% (wasn't it?) - in other words, you would still have had to pay game fee for their games.
-
- Posts: 21315
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Compulsory Membership?
All of which is obvious and a logical consequence of voting in favour of the ECF's plans. I will leave to you to conclude if, on balance, this is likely to increase or reduce the number of players taking part in "official" chess. As an ex county captain, it would seem very logical that if you reduce (by compulsory membership) the pool of players who can play in your county team, that both reduces the strength of your team and increases the likelihood of defaults.Mick Norris wrote: Obviously, game fee at £2 means that juniors playing at least 4 games, and adults playing at least 6, should join the ECF - it may be that our clubs decide on compulsory ECF membership
Conversely, we might insist on compulsory membership for G Man county players (as the MCF currently pays Game Fee for county matches)
-
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Re: Compulsory Membership?
So don't do it. Simply charge non-members £2 more to play than members do.Roger de Coverly wrote:All of which is obvious and a logical consequence of voting in favour of the ECF's plans. I will leave to you to conclude if, on balance, this is likely to increase or reduce the number of players taking part in "official" chess. As an ex county captain, it would seem very logical that if you reduce (by compulsory membership) the pool of players who can play in your county team, that both reduces the strength of your team and increases the likelihood of defaults.
In practice, I suspect most potential county players will play sufficient games elsewhere to make membership desirable anyway.
-
- Posts: 10362
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Compulsory Membership?
Compulsory membership would have solved the problem of a 99% membership club paying Game Fee at £2 instead of £1 because other clubs didn't get anywhere close to 85%, thus dragging down the average of the League as a whole - we decided this was potentially unfairSean Hewitt wrote:Not sure what's changed Mick. The 3 games exemption was for counting towards the 85% (wasn't it?) - in other words, you would still have had to pay game fee for their games.Mick Norris wrote:MCF Council had decided to support compulsory membership for the Manchester League and we are due to have an EGM in just over a month
However, now that the 85% rule for reduced Game Fee has been dropped, and with it the exemption for ungraded players with up to 3 games, I don't see that we need to support compulsory membership any more - we could continue, as at present, to bill clubs for (much increased) game fee
Obviously, game fee at £2 means that juniors playing at least 4 games, and adults playing at least 6, should join the ECF - it may be that our clubs decide on compulsory ECF membership
Conversely, we might insist on compulsory membership for G Man county players (as the MCF currently pays Game Fee for county matches)
As Game Fee is £2 now regardless, I don't see that the League needs to impose compulsory membership, but clubs may choose to do so internally as it were
And yes, the ungraded player exemption is now a red herring
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
- Posts: 10362
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Compulsory Membership?
We don't charge players anything to play county chess, so the question would be should we do so - or maybe, would the captains find the hassle of working out and collecting the money from the individuals worse than having to get them to join the ECF before selection?Sean Hewitt wrote:So don't do it. Simply charge non-members £2 more to play than members do.Roger de Coverly wrote:All of which is obvious and a logical consequence of voting in favour of the ECF's plans. I will leave to you to conclude if, on balance, this is likely to increase or reduce the number of players taking part in "official" chess. As an ex county captain, it would seem very logical that if you reduce (by compulsory membership) the pool of players who can play in your county team, that both reduces the strength of your team and increases the likelihood of defaults.
In practice, I suspect most potential county players will play sufficient games elsewhere to make membership desirable anyway.
We do have some county players who don't play in the League (like me!) and in some cases don't play anywhere else
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: Compulsory Membership?
In my Worcestershire playing days, I had to pay £5, I think, to play county chess. This was for the venue. It's certainly commonly done in other counties too. They don't seem to have an issue with collecting the money.Mick Norris wrote:We don't charge players anything to play county chess, so the question would be should we do so - or maybe, would the captains find the hassle of working out and collecting the money from the individuals worse than having to get them to join the ECF before selection?
It's worth bearing in mind that at the national stages, they'll have to be ECF members full stop; there's no Game Fee option.
-
- Posts: 21315
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Compulsory Membership?
You've had problems this season with nominated counties finding themselves unable to raise teams. Restricting player availability solves the problem, since counties may decline to enter.Alex Holowczak wrote: It's worth bearing in mind that at the national stages, they'll have to be ECF members full stop; there's no Game Fee option.
-
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Re: Compulsory Membership?
...thus allowing counties who can fulfill the fixture to participate instead.Roger de Coverly wrote:You've had problems this season with nominated counties finding themselves unable to raise teams. Restricting player availability solves the problem, since counties may decline to enter.Alex Holowczak wrote: It's worth bearing in mind that at the national stages, they'll have to be ECF members full stop; there's no Game Fee option.
-
- Posts: 2151
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:37 am
Re: Compulsory Membership?
So game fee applies to the local stages but not to the national stages of county competitions? I thought game fee applied to everything that wasn't a congress and I don't recall Council considering and deciding on any special case.Alex Holowczak wrote:It's worth bearing in mind that at the national stages, [county players] have to be ECF members full stop; there's no Game Fee option.
-
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 pm
Re: Compulsory Membership?
This has always been the case ; otherwise you would have the bizarre situation of the ECF paying itself game fee as organisations rather than individuals pay game fee.Angus French wrote:So game fee applies to the local stages but not to the national stages of county competitions? I thought game fee applied to everything that wasn't a congress and I don't recall Council considering and deciding on any special case.Alex Holowczak wrote:It's worth bearing in mind that at the national stages, [county players] have to be ECF members full stop; there's no Game Fee option.
-
- Posts: 10362
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Compulsory Membership?
AlexAlex Holowczak wrote:In my Worcestershire playing days, I had to pay £5, I think, to play county chess. This was for the venue. It's certainly commonly done in other counties too. They don't seem to have an issue with collecting the money.Mick Norris wrote:We don't charge players anything to play county chess, so the question would be should we do so - or maybe, would the captains find the hassle of working out and collecting the money from the individuals worse than having to get them to join the ECF before selection?
It's worth bearing in mind that at the national stages, they'll have to be ECF members full stop; there's no Game Fee option.
That's useful info
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
- Posts: 9085
- Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:18 pm
- Location: Oldbury, Worcestershire
Re: Compulsory Membership?
All ECF events are now exempt from paying Game Fee. I read on the SCCU website that once upon a time, this wasn't the case.Sean Hewitt wrote:This has always been the case ; otherwise you would have the bizarre situation of the ECF paying itself game fee as organisations rather than individuals pay game fee.Angus French wrote:So game fee applies to the local stages but not to the national stages of county competitions? I thought game fee applied to everything that wasn't a congress and I don't recall Council considering and deciding on any special case.Alex Holowczak wrote:It's worth bearing in mind that at the national stages, [county players] have to be ECF members full stop; there's no Game Fee option.
The ECF paying itself Game Fee would be made all the more ludicrous if it had to pay 20% VAT for these Game Fee payments! I don't know if it would have to, but the exemption is surely the most sensible solution.