ECF Office

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:12 pm

Mike Truran wrote:Paul

I suggest the latter, on the basis that just about every thread concerning the ECF is regularly hijacked by the usual suspect in order to bang on relentlessly about his particular hobbyhorse.
I monitor but from the pub this time and splitting the thread is hard work even on a real computer
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Justin Hadi

Re: ECF Office

Post by Justin Hadi » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:14 pm

I give up on this thread.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:22 pm

Mike Truran wrote: I suggest the latter, on the basis that just about every thread concerning the ECF is regularly hijacked by the usual suspect in order to bang on relentlessly about his particular hobbyhorse.
The season for AGMs is approaching and all counties and leagues are going to have to decide what rule changes they are going to have to make because of the ECF.

Ian Thompson suggests that, I presume, because of the high number of existing 4NCL members and presumably the high numbers of games played on average, that in aggregate anyway, players in the Border league may see their costs reduced. The same may apply to the Chiltern counties, Berks possibly, Bucks less so. For Oxford I would have thought the major issue is whether to continue to allow the University to field a large number of different players and how to charge them for it if they do.

But it remains the unanswered question, what is the ECF Office for?

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:32 pm

I think by now everyone and his mom knows you are not keen on the ECF membership scheme Roger :roll:
Last edited by Carl Hibbard on Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Snooker at home now as 4-0 half time was not a game
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John Townsend
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Re: ECF Office

Post by John Townsend » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:57 pm

Better to focus on the issues rather the personalities. Anyway, I invariably find Roger's input informed and very helpful, and his views may very well carry a high level of support among the wider chess playing community. I am very glad that Berkshire has such a vigilant league secretary.

Roger has also tried to bring the subject matter of this thread back back on course:
But it remains the unanswered question, what is the ECF Office for?

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John Upham
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Re: ECF Office

Post by John Upham » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:48 pm

John Townsend wrote: I am very glad that Berkshire has such a vigilant league secretary.

Peter Larwood will be very pleased to learn of your endorsement.

He is Secretary of the Berkshire Chess Association.
British Chess News : britishchessnews.com
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Stewart Reuben » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:12 pm

But it remains the unanswered question, what is the ECF Office for?

Patently its purpose is so that people can ask the question, 'What is the ECF Office for?'

What is the meaning of life, the universe and 1 d4?

AustinElliott
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Re: ECF Office

Post by AustinElliott » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:37 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:But it remains the unanswered question, what is the ECF Office for?

Patently its purpose is so that people can ask the question, 'What is the ECF Office for?'

What is the meaning of life, the universe and 1 d4?
Aha! I know the answer to that last one.

42. (1-0, on time)

Bob Kane
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Bob Kane » Tue May 01, 2012 6:34 pm

The ecf office puts the British out to tender
Why not put the office function out to a tender ?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue May 01, 2012 6:45 pm

Bob Kane wrote:The ecf office puts the British out to tender
The whole event is run by manager(s) appointed by the ECF. Tendering only applies to jobs within the British that people expect money for, like commentary and bulletins and for the exclusive rights to run a book and equipment stall, for which the ECF should get paid. They did outsource the administration of the grading database a while back. I'm not aware if there was more than one candidate. Arbiters at the British, I think, are by invitation.

Paul Cooksey

Re: ECF Office

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed May 02, 2012 7:23 pm

Justin Hadi wrote:I give up on this thread.
Me too. I don't want to choose between the ECF being disbanded, and remaining exactly as it is. But we never seem to get any further than that.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed May 02, 2012 8:27 pm

Other ways of dealing with the ECF, or rather BCF before it have been considered.
A purely amateur administration. That has been true at various times.
Putting the office out to tender. that was considered very seriously in 1999. I had just finishd being chairman and deliberately wasn't involved.
Combining with the EBU or the Table Tennis people (their headquarters are in Hastings). Never seriously considered.
Having a national centre in Hastings and then evolving the organisation.
Moving to London.
There are the obvious problems of making radical changes, including that everybody has a vested position.
The Canadian CF changed radically. Jonthan Berry as a young man took over the running of the CCF, including the rating, in exchange for th marketing rights to the members. It worked well fo a number of years.

John Townsend
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Re: ECF Office

Post by John Townsend » Sat May 05, 2012 12:15 pm

But it remains the unanswered question, what is the ECF Office for?
I do not feel that this question has been specifically answered, yet to ordinary chess players at the grass roots level it seems an important one, since it is they, I gather, who will be asked to bear the brunt of the extra ECF charges/fees. The office and staff are, presumably, major elements in the way their money will be spent, but they do not seem to benefit much from the office beyond grading, which, in any case, if I have understood correctly, only accounts for a fraction of the office's activities. Please correct me if my impression is wrong, but aren't they getting a raw deal?

With best wishes,

John Townsend

Stewart Reuben
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue May 08, 2012 1:24 am

I am not sure what you mean when you say, 'aren't they getting a raw deal? If you mean the office and staff because you don't know what they do, this has been answered before and appeared in a thread some years ago. The current question was phrased in a someewhat jokey manner and I took not to be taken seriously.
You may find the following helpful: http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=12933.
The ECF is primarily made up of volunteers some of whom do a huge amount of work, unpaid and unthanked. This requires coordination.
The ECF website does not produce itself.
The Yearbook.
ChessMoves.
Calendar
Certificate of Merit
Junior chess coordination
One of the most persistent queries is, 'Where is my local chess club?' The office is the source of a very large number of new members without the clubs even knowing.
International chess, for juniors, adults, females and seniors requires the ECF and the office.
Counties Championship
Grand Prix
There are many other things, but I have been out of direct ECF administration for a couple of years.
People pay taxes nationally. Most of their money does not come back as benefit directly to them.

Ask not what the ECF does for you, rather what you can do for English chess.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Office

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue May 08, 2012 1:59 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:I am not sure what you mean when you say, 'aren't they getting a raw deal? If you mean the office and staff because you don't know what they do, this has been answered before and appeared in a thread some years ago.
It is, as you say an old question, leagues and county associations have been content to fund the ECF without asking too many questions. All they wanted in return was a promise to grade the games from local competitions for a cost established at the start of the season without a lot of investigation by the ECF as to who was actually playing and their eligibility status.

If the ECF changes that and demands that each individual player should hand their details over to the ECF in exchange for being allowed to play serious chess, then the ECF should expect many more questions as to what it does and, more to the point, why it does it.

It may well be true that there's a hidden cost for English players of whatever age to participate in events organised by or for FIDE. The cost is never disclosed though. It's very possible for individuals to play outside of the UK without involving the ECF Office in any way.