British Chess Championship VAT added

[Mike Truran]

Ad habitum? ('Ad' takes the accusative). But I suppose that on the basis that 'habitus' is a fourth declension Latin noun, 'ad habitus' would work if it was plural.

Not absolutely sure about the VAT point. But the extract below from the HMRC website suggests they wouldn't be VATable.

A true fine or penalty is a separate payment from the standard charge for a supply. It is usually a sum of money levied as a consequence for a contravention of the terms of a contract and so does not form part of the consideration for a supply. The terms can also refer to money levied to penalise an unlawful act, for instance parking on yellow lines. This type of payment is also outside the scope of VAT since no supply has been made to the recipient of the payment.

[E Michael White]

Ad habitum? ('Ad' takes the accusative). But I suppose that on the basis that 'habitus' is a fourth declension Latin noun, 'ad habitus' would work if it was plural.

Ad is not always followed by an English accusative. eg ad Lib. In Latin yes. Habitus is an English term in that sense derived from Latin.

Also sorry to ascend to your level of pedantry but ...."if it were plural". Its a subjunctive even in your part of Oxford.

The important part of the link is :- For instance, a certain behaviour or belief becomes part of a society's structure when the original purpose of that behaviour or belief can no longer be recalled and becomes socialized into individuals of that culture.

[Mike Truran]

Its a subjunctive even in your part of Oxford.

1. First part: indeed. Even Homer nods. That said, I suppose I could ascend to still greater heights of pedantry by pointing out that 'its' should have an apostrophe. Second part: last time I looked Witney wasn't in Oxford.

2. 'Ad lib' is short for 'ad libitum' - which is also an accusative. If 'ad habitus' is a recognised term, then 'habitus' must be plural.

[E Michael White]

1. First part: indeed. Even Homer nods. That said, I suppose I could ascend to still greater heights of pedantry by pointing out that 'its' should have an apostrophe. Second part: last time I looked Witney wasn't in Oxford.

1. Homer wasn't in when I phoned so I took Lisa's word for it. 'It's' - yes. And I thought Witney was in Oxfordshire. Perhaps I caused confusion by abreviating.

2. Latin words in English often lose their case in time. For example bus. Bus is short for omnibus ie dative pural. You might have difficulty with the accusitive plural if you wanted to get on an Omnes. it would have to be Nes. Stop the Nes i want to get off.

In your part of the world, be it Oxfordshire or some place else (American), what case do you regard - advent, adverb adjective and adduce ?

Getting back on topic

A true fine or penalty is a separate payment from the standard charge for a supply. It is usually a sum of money levied as a consequence for a contravention of the terms of a contract and so does not form part of the consideration for a supply. The terms can also refer to money levied to penalise an unlawful act, for instance parking on yellow lines. This type of payment is also outside the scope of VAT since no supply has been made to the recipient of the payment.

Does that mean if you charge at the British an entry fee of £1 and a fine of £99 for appearing early, VAT vould be reduced on entry fees to 20p ? I always knew the purpose of the FIDE zero default rule would emerge eventually.

[Paul Cooksey]

Romanes eunt domus.

[Alex Holowczak]

And I thought Witney was in Oxfordshire. Perhaps I caused confusion by abreviating.

Maybe if you'd used Oxfordshire's traditional abbreviation of "Oxon"

[Louise Sinclair]

Although the ECF has to pay VAT on the entry fees to the British Championships I have been told that the overall effect on the finances is rather small as we are able to reclaim vattable expenses. The most obvious of which is the hotel bill for the admin team. This makes the comment by Louise Sinclair even more ill-informed.

I am aware that VAT is often reclaimable my family do run businnesses . I am not surprised by the personal insults levied by the chess establishment including the rudeness from Stewart Ruben
Disappointed , selfish, petulant. You people show a remarkable lack of creativity and a flair for ignoring the points.
However rather than examine the issues which cause ill feeling towards the ECF you prefer to make personal remarks about me.I recommend who purchase the new book by Terry Leahy who believed in having a panel of customers discuss the issues they disliked about Tesco so that these problems could be addressed.
But then again Terry Leahy needed to show profits and improvements - possibly something not deemed essential by the movers and shakers of rthe ECF.
Louise

[Louise Sinclair]

Furthermore VAT is not payable with poker and neither is income tax levied on winning. This is because poker players are considered to be gambling with their money. Monies which are gambled cannot be subjected to tax without the proviso of the player reclaiming tax and VAT for gambling losses and expenses which anybody with a decent accountant would use to advantage. I'm surprised Stewart is unaware of this point. It was in the Financial Times a few years ago.
Louise

[Sean Hewitt]

Furthermore VAT is not payable with poker and neither is income tax levied on winning. This is because poker players are considered to be gambling with their money. Monies which are gambled cannot be subjected to tax without the proviso of the player reclaiming tax and VAT for gambling losses and expenses which anybody with a decent accountant would use to advantage. I'm surprised Stewart is unaware of this point. It was in the Financial Times a few years ago.
Louise

Hi Louise. Stewart is very well aware of this point as he has discussed it with me.

The difference (as I understand it) is that the authorities consider poker to be a game of luck and chess a game of skill. Therefore, the poker is gambling (and not subject to taxation) whilst the chess is not gambling (and so is subject to taxation).

[Louise Sinclair]

Sean
I understand what you are saying but Stuart was talking as though he is surprised that poker is not subject to tax. Gambling is relying on luck - poker does require skill but alas luck does play a part in it. Although if I wished to be pedantic I could argue that chess also has an element of luck ie when your opponent leaves his Queen en prise
Louise

[Alan Walton]

Louise,

A player leaving a piece en prise could be argued is not an element of luck just a basic lack of skill/composure not calculating it correctly

Whereas in poker hitting a card on the river is totally an element of luck (the skill envolved is calculating the odds)

[Louise Sinclair]

Alan
I can't quite agree because if a piece is left undefended though for example a momentary distraction - it is not necessarily lack of skill. Also with poker a hand between two players might result in the victory going to the under dog who clings to his cards without caring to calculate his outs. This is where skill at poker is trumped by someones bad play turning to their good fortune.
Louise

[Alan Walton]

Leaving a piece unguarded is a lack of concentration (even I have a tendency doing this), but I believe this is nothing to do with luck, there is a deficency of technique in said player, the stronger players very rarely do this so i called this an element of "skill"

All card games are luck based, you are relying on a turn of a random card out of the pack, calculating the odds is the only "skill" involved, but even then you are playing the odds and nothing is guaranteed, even the top poker players sometimes play against the odds and hit, so luck is more envolved

[John McKenna]

Gambling is a vice, a social evil. Even attempts to sanitise it like the National Lottery only disguise it. That gamblers can escape tax yet, when they end up losing everything, get assistance from state and local government, beggars belief.
Then again, following the argument above, they can claim that they became destitute by chance coupled with a complete lack of skill at their chosen pastime hence deserved to pay no tax but are deserving of assistance from taxation - another slice of luck?

[Louise Sinclair]

Gambling is no worse a vice then alcohol. Sensible people don't gamble money they can't afford and responsible drinkers know when to stop.The biggest vice is intolerance
Alan
I have seen strong players leave pieces en prise. Calculating odds is not the only skill in poker. You also need to read the player and adjust the game you are playing depending on the situation. Apart from technicalities there are no hard and fast rules at the poker table.