The value of the ECF Calendar

[Adam Raoof]

Shouldn't Jersey be treated the same way as Guernsey? In the past we have always graded the event as well as FIDE rating it, and this won't change for the revived 2013 Jersey Festival. This should also be in the domestic and 'International' calendar.

There are a couple of questions of policy which in my view should have been ratified by the voting membership. The principle being that if a change of policy has an effect on a wide range of the participants in British or English chess, then support should come from more than a handful of ECF Directors.

Then you would need to change the operating structure of the ECF. In my opinion, such a system would render the ECF impotent.

There's an International Calendar at
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=21604

This contains two events which are ECF graded, presumably, by virtue of being run by ECF members, namely Gibraltar and Isle of Man. There's a third event, namely Guernsey, which has always been graded in the past.

IoM and Gibraltar are considered ENG for chess purposes. I think these should be listed in both Domestic and International calendars.

Two other events, namely Jersey and South Wales, should have a warning attached if the only way that ECF members will get games graded is being using the "Foreign tournaments" process..

I think that's a good idea and will get onto that now.

The main calendar can be difficult to get at. Unusually for what look like the headers to drop downs on the main ECF page, the link at the top of the page has to be clicked to get at the main calendar, From there you have to click individual months rather than see the whole year on one scrollable sheet.

I also agree with that and will wsee what we can do. Thanks.

[Sean Hewitt]

Shouldn't Jersey be treated the same way as Guernsey? In the past we have always graded the event as well as FIDE rating it, and this won't change for the revived 2013 Jersey Festival. This should also be in the domestic and 'International' calendar.

Aren't Jersey and Guernsey distinct federations in exactly the same way that Wales and Scotland are?

[Sean Hewitt]

The main calendar can be difficult to get at. Unusually for what look like the headers to drop downs on the main ECF page, the link at the top of the page has to be clicked to get at the main calendar, From there you have to click individual months rather than see the whole year on one scrollable sheet.

I also agree with that and will wsee what we can do. Thanks.

This change has now been done. Thanks again for the suggestion.

[Adam Raoof]

Shouldn't Jersey be treated the same way as Guernsey? In the past we have always graded the event as well as FIDE rating it, and this won't change for the revived 2013 Jersey Festival. This should also be in the domestic and 'International' calendar.

Aren't Jersey and Guernsey distinct federations in exactly the same way that Wales and Scotland are?

True, but Guernsey and Jersey are usually ECF graded, as most of the players are ECF - moreover we'll require ECF membership.

To be honest I am not sure I would put any of the home nations events in an international calendar.

[Sean Hewitt]

True, but Guernsey and Jersey are usually ECF graded, as most of the players are ECF - moreover we'll require ECF membership.

How can 'we' require ECF membership in an event which is run under the auspices of a 'foreign' federation? Don't forget, events in the Channel Islands are FIDE rated by the Jersey or Guernsey Chess Federatios - not by the ECF.

[Adam Raoof]

True, but Guernsey and Jersey are usually ECF graded, as most of the players are ECF - moreover we'll require ECF membership.

How can 'we' require ECF membership in an event which is run under the auspices of a 'foreign' federation? Don't forget, events in the Channel Islands are FIDE rated by the Jersey or Guernsey Chess Federatios - not by the ECF.

True, but they have a BCQ place, and are usually ECF graded.

[Sean Hewitt]

True, but Guernsey and Jersey are usually ECF graded, as most of the players are ECF - moreover we'll require ECF membership.

How can 'we' require ECF membership in an event which is run under the auspices of a 'foreign' federation? Don't forget, events in the Channel Islands are FIDE rated by the Jersey or Guernsey Chess Federatios - not by the ECF.

True, but they have a BCQ place, and are usually ECF graded.

They have a BCQ place because all FIDE rated events held in the British Isles which are Open get an automatic place. it is the British Championships after all. Perhaps in previous years they paid game fee (I don't know) though I don't think Jersey has been run for a number of years.

[Roger de Coverly]

Perhaps in previous years they paid game fee (I don't know) though I don't think Jersey has been run for a number of years.

I don't think there was ever any difficulty with the Guernsey Congress or a Jersey Congress being a member of the ECF in the Game Fee environment. All it meant was that it paid the 7 or 6 * Game Fee amount to the ECF for every player who wasn't an ECF member. Later the ECF Directors generously agreed to waive Game Fee for non-English players.

But on the new regime, if it's Internationally rated, the "Pay to Pay" regime doesn't apply. With the FIDE rating being done through the local Federation, the ECF has no powers to enforce membership on any ENG players taking part other than the sanction of suspending them from the international list. If the event is to be included in the English grading system, non ENG, non members will be included at no cost (which is the position for all FIDE rated events), alongside, on the face of it, English non-members.

Presumably the Jersey Congress can, if it wishes, insist on ECF membership for all players it can define as ENG. It also needs to become a member of the ECF in its own right, if allowed, or register the event through an organisation that is already a member. There's been a previous Jersey event recently, which was run under the Castle chess banner.

[Andy Howie]

They have a BCQ place because all FIDE rated events held in the British Isles which are Open get an automatic place. it is the British Championships after all. Perhaps in previous years they paid game fee (I don't know) though I don't think Jersey has been run for a number of years.

Hi Sean,

Is that actually true or is it that each federation in BICC can nominate x number of players (or is it even both!). We have had several FIDE opens up north and I don't recall any of then offering BCQ places? If it is the case then I can let the organisors of Edinburgh, Glasgow and Prestwick know that they can offer a place and we could theoretically offer a place from the open we have at the Scottish

If you could clarify this for me, it would be appreciated

[Sean Hewitt]

They have a BCQ place because all FIDE rated events held in the British Isles which are Open get an automatic place. it is the British Championships after all. Perhaps in previous years they paid game fee (I don't know) though I don't think Jersey has been run for a number of years.

Hi Sean,

Is that actually true or is it that each federation in BICC can nominate x number of players (or is it even both!). We have had several FIDE opens up north and I don't recall any of then offering BCQ places? If it is the case then I can let the organisors of Edinburgh, Glasgow and Prestwick know that they can offer a place and we could theoretically offer a place from the open we have at the Scottish

If you could clarify this for me, it would be appreciated

Hi Andy - it is both. Each federation gets to nominate x players. In addition, the highest placed eligible player, not already qualified, from any British Isles Open FIDE rated event subject to that event having had an entry of at least 24 entries in the previous year. New events should apply to the Championship Manager.

Full details http://britishchesschampionships.co.uk/ ... mpionship/

[Kevin Thurlow]

A few years ago, BCF did demand Game Fee payments from Guernsey, who pointed out that they were a different Federation, and (quite rightly) refused to pay. Then later BCF did decide to grade it anyway, but whenever I asked a BCF official why, they said it was a secret, but that they could choose to grade such events if they wanted to. I can't see that GCF would care one way or the other, so it seems unlikely that they would want it graded in England.

[Roger de Coverly]

Then later BCF did decide to grade it anyway, but whenever I asked a BCF official why, they said it was a secret, but that they could choose to grade such events if they wanted to.

Whether or not this is correct, it helps explain why Game Fee never quite seemed to raise what it should if you counted the games from the grading system. It may also explain why the BCF/ECF was never very keen on integrating the billing process with the grading process.

I think such sweetheart deals, if they exist, should be exposed. There's one around at the moment. Apparently if you run a FIDE rated league, non members can play their first game for free, a concession not available to all other leagues.

I can't see that GCF would care one way or the other, so it seems unlikely that they would want it graded in England.

The players might though, it's the Yorkshire argument.

It's a problem the ECF has to face. If past directors allowed Game Fee waivers for some events, do these continue as membership waivers?

[Sean Hewitt]

The ECF has agreed that 'foreign' events such as Jersey or Guernsey can be graded where

(i) For FIDE rated events, all ENG players are members at Gold or above. No costs would then be payable.
(ii) For non FIDE rated events, all players (incl non English) are ECF silver members (or above) or the event pays £6 per player.

In other words, they apply exactly the same rules as if the event occurred in England.

It appears that in the past a Director may have agreed to waive game fee for certain events, despite not having the authority to do so (a board decision is required to waive game fee for an event). In any event, the board will honour such a waiver where it was given.

[Richard Haddrell]

The ECF has agreed that 'foreign' events such as Jersey or Guernsey can be graded ...

Isn't "such as" a bit vague? What are the criteria, and where may we read them?

[Roger de Coverly]

Reviving this topic as the Manager for Congress Chess has put a piece about the development of the calendar on the ECF website.

http://andreww.myzen.co.uk/Holland/the- ... -calendar/

The issue about events not being graded or even able to be graded and also included in the Calendar appears to have been raised at the recent AGM.

from http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/bcf.htm

"Have any ungraded congresses paid £50 to appear in the ECF Calendar?" A top-table spokesman defended the charging policy at some length without actually, as far as we noticed, answering the question. We concluded the answer was no.

There are some Welsh Congresses included in the calendar. The top sections of these are mostly FIDE rated and they therefore have a qualification place for Aberystwyth. Unless something has changed in the past few months, these will only be ECF graded for individuals who go through the "Foreign tournaments" notification process.