Size of County teams

[David Pardoe]

There are huge swathes in the north which have become `county exclusion zones`.

I'd rather suspect the growth of 4NCL Division 3 North means it will stay that way. I don't really know why the NCCU raised the issue, as they don't actually run any inter county competitions other than Lancashire v Yorkshire matches.

I am surprised by your comments Roger.

The 4NCL leagues are one of a host of excellent offerings to our chess community in this country, catering for a whole range of tastes across the chess spectrum. If the 4NCL events are having a destructive effect on our other major British chess events, perhaps the ECF should write to Mike Truran, as part of a new top-down initiative, and ask him to suspend them before they cause any more damage. Of course, those in the `south` must be doing the most damage, because they are currently the biggest category?

No....
In fact, in this country we are extremely lucky to have such a wide variety of chess Congresses & tournaments, which provide a veritable gold mine of chess playing opportunities for our players. And its all thanks to the small bands of talanted, dedicated, and experienced chess organisers, who devote huge amounts of there time and energies. Much of it `behind the scenes`, for free, (with little or no thanks, and angst from some quarters who are never satisfied), for the huge benefit of our substantial chess playing community.
We really need to be grateful for the work of these people, and give them all possible support in there efforts.
Maybe this huge (...and largely unsong) success of our chess events should be recognised & discussed at this years ECF AGM.

[Roger de Coverly]

Of course, those in the `south` must be doing the most damage, because they are currently the biggest category?

It's a localised effect, but even in the South, there are only a finite number of players. The county, Oxon, for which the 4NCL is almost a perpetual home venue made a deliberate decision to abandon playing chess in the main SCCU competition in favour of running several 4NCL teams. Berks and Bucks, for whom the 4NCL was "home" when played at Sunningdale or near Reading don't have SCCU teams either.

It's probably a good thing, because it isn't very nice playing in a team that's almost always outclassed because of rules restricting the available playing base.

[MartinCarpenter]

That thing with being outclassed no doubt a major NCCU issue. Just incredibly hard for Cleveland/Cumbria to sensibly compete with Lancs/Yorks over any plausibly large number of boards and massive travelling too. The NE could just about compete if they got absolutely everyone but again huge travelling - even just to get the very dispersed team together! - and they get a much better pay off for that effort in the 4NCL (N).

Yorks vs Lancs is easy because the main population centers are mostly perched just either side of the pennines. Manchester would be too but of course a few historic factors involved there

[Graham Borrowdale]

I can not agree with Roger's assertion that it is either 4NCL or County. They are different animals, largely catering for different markets. There are great swathes of players who can not justify spending 2 days of a weekend on chess, but can manage Saturday afternoons, or Sundays in the case of EACU. There are others who like the more social aspects of a 4NCL weekend, and there are some who play both.
It is also not correct to assume that players whose counties choose to play outside the ECF counties structure are happy with that situation. The county I live in chooses not to play in ECF events, so I prefer to represent a different county, which does. Others might not have that option.

[Phil Neatherway]

I also cannot agree with Roger's assession that Oxford plays in the 4NCL at home on an almost perpetual basis. Daventry is not in Oxfordshire and it takes an hour and a quarter to get there from Oxford.

It is true to say that county matches in the main SCCU competition would involve more travelling. I for one never fancied the trips to Kent, Sussex etc which was the main reason I never played much county chess after moving to Oxon.

Also it is a misconception to say that the Oxford teams are a replacement for the County side because many of our 4NCL players would not be eligible to play for Oxfordhsire under current county rules.

[MartinCarpenter]

I think he meant the NCCU more? The SCCU, and related, county stuff is clearly the major single day based teams competition in the relevant area(s). (As opposed to whole weekends.).

In Yorkshire that's the Yorkshire league. Fundamentally just much easier to raise teams and organise travel between the major Yorkshire cities than to try and get teams from geographically massive, population sparse, areas like the NE or Cumbria. Manchester/Liverpool left a little bit out in the cold, so not such a surprise to see them liking the 4NCL North.

[Roger de Coverly]

I also cannot agree with Roger's assession that Oxford plays in the 4NCL at home on an almost perpetual basis. Daventry is not in Oxfordshire and it takes an hour and a quarter to get there from Oxford.

Sunningdale also is an hour and a quarter from Oxford. The point is that potentially you can play without staying overnight. The impression I have is that the Division 3 teams on the Saturday aren't the same as the ones on the Sunday.

The issue of playing in the SCCU competitions is raised from time to time in local AGMs. Anyone raising it is invited to name the fifteen other players prepared to travel to Catford or Brighton. As you rightly say, the 4NCL rules enable Oxford to 'bus in' players to be 4NCL Division One competitive, something not allowed in the county rules.

[John McKenna]

Kent seem to be at the Mick Jagger Centre at Dartford instead of Catford Cricket Club these days.

RdeC (previous page)>The problem... counties with limited resources will struggle to fill the lower boards with players of an appropriate strength. Still everyone will have an opinion and the first hour of the AGM will no doubt be spent on this topic.<

If it is true that the AGM tends to spend that much time discussing this kind of topic then it has lost its sense of proportion.
Gordian knot, squaring the circle, angels on pinhead and judgement of Solomon come to mind.
Once upon a time in China, when I mentioned 'opinion' to an American he told me - yes, everyone has one, like everyone has an ass [arse]. He was right, when you think about it, what he said is a fact not an opinion.

[John McKenna]

Wassup?

I never meant to stifle debate here - this is a perfect topic for the forum.

Round and round and round she goes, where she stops nobody knows. The miles are gettin' longer, the nights they never end...