Junior ECF Membership

[Angus French]

Also:-
1. would the existing ECF grading team be able/willing to take on this extra work?
2. as there is extra work, presumably there is an associated cost. How would this be funded?

The Grading Database Administrator has an honorarium and a contract. So any results submitted can be dealt with him. He may want more money in a future contract with additional work, but I would expect the money brought in by new memberships would cover it.

The technical challenge of producing another list isn't difficult. We did it when the Rapidplay list was introduced.

The bigger task would be designing the website link and making it clear it was outside the "normal" grading system. That's done by a volunteer, and would be a far bigger time commitment. That's the bigger hurdle.

Hmm.... I wonder what the Grading Administrator's take on the situation might be?

[Alex Holowczak]

Hmm.... I wonder what the Grading Administrator's take on the situation might be?

Having read his contract, it wouldn't need to be amended to implement a junior-only list; or indeed any other list it was decided to implement.

As I say, come the next time for renewal, he might have asked for more money given the increased workload. The increased income from membership subscriptions would have covered this.

If he didn't want to do the junior list part of the job, then I'm sure the junior organiser community would find someone willing to do it; particularly if an honorarium was offered.

[Greg Breed]

The idea of a separate ECF Junior grading system is worthy of serious consideration. It could be much more attractive to juniors than the existing system. There are some important issues to decide, including:

• Should it be a third ECF grade on the grading website, or something separate?
  Should it use a different number scale to allow beginners to start with a positive number?
  Could we use an existing alternative? (Berks Junior grading system and Chessnuts comes to mind)
  Could games be graded twice - both junior and ECF?
  Would grades be immediately updated when results are entered?
  How would it be charged?
  How could it be set up so that many junior organisers would be keen to use it?
  What would the effect be on ECF rapidplay grades if all junior-only events ceased to be included?[/list

Perhaps juniors don't need a main ECF grade, and could instead be graded outside the system, and offered the opportunity to trade into the system if they so wished? After all they can get themselves graded and rated by playing ordinary tournaments if they want to. A junior grading system could be much more relaxed. The 'important' games (critical prize games in the higher age groups) would very likely be played under better conditions anyway, at well organised junior events.

A major problem would be making clear to young players new to the game that their grade is a separate junior grade and not directly comparable to adult grades. Don't forget that we understand the system but junior players and their parents might not. Do we want young players who have obtained junior grades well into the 100s approaching chess club or entering congresses claiming they have a high grade and promptly getting humiliated by adults with apparently much lower grades.

A ladder system might be easier to implement and maintain. It also has the benefit of having a totally different meaning to a grade/rating so confusion should be minimal. When juniors leave chess or are no longer juniors then they leave the system.

[Angus French]

Hmm.... I wonder what the Grading Administrator's take on the situation might be?

Having read his contract, it wouldn't need to be amended to implement a junior-only list; or indeed any other list it was decided to implement.

As I say, come the next time for renewal, he might have asked for more money given the increased workload. The increased income from membership subscriptions would have covered this.

If he didn't want to do the junior list part of the job, then I'm sure the junior organiser community would find someone willing to do it; particularly if an honorarium was offered.

... and if he thought 'stuff the contract' (given the increase in workload for no extra reward) - where would we be then?

[Brian Valentine]

The current ECF system for juniors would not work for a separate list - there are absolutely no previous grades to plug into the system. Hence the players would be unable to measure improvement (I suspect that this is their prime interest). Hence if a new list is proposed a new approach will be needed and this should take into account the requirements selected from the posts in this thread.

If immediacy of update is key then sorting out the practicalities of the administration are key, there are several alternatives of the actual grading algorithm. Let's start with how we uniquely identify the players given there might be no ECF grading number.

[Sean Hewitt]

Hmm.... I wonder what the Grading Administrator's take on the situation might be?

Having read his contract, it wouldn't need to be amended to implement a junior-only list; or indeed any other list it was decided to implement.

As I say, come the next time for renewal, he might have asked for more money given the increased workload. The increased income from membership subscriptions would have covered this.

If he didn't want to do the junior list part of the job, then I'm sure the junior organiser community would find someone willing to do it; particularly if an honorarium was offered.

... and if he thought 'stuff the contract' (given the increase in workload for no extra reward) - where would we be then?

Then he'd be in breach of contract, wouldn't he? I have no doubt that someone as diligent and professional as Richard Haddrell wouldn't countenance such a thing.

[Roger de Coverly]

the Federation will shortly be offering one year's free membership to any junior who has not previously been an ECF member.

The conditions for this are now on the ECF website

Junior Silver Membership

The Board have agreed to introduce a special introductory offer of one year’s free membership for junior players who have not previously been members of the Federation. Applications for this class of membership must be made by email to the ECF Office, stating name, address, and date of birth. Club membership and grading reference should also be given if known.

So not only are the ECF collecting zero revenue in comparison to a system of levying collective charges on events, they are also incurring additional office costs in so doing. If you want to encourage participation, not requiring membership should be cheaper to run than administering free membership.

[John Swain]

the Federation will shortly be offering one year's free membership to any junior who has not previously been an ECF member.

The conditions for this are now on the ECF website

Junior Silver Membership

The Board have agreed to introduce a special introductory offer of one year’s free membership for junior players who have not previously been members of the Federation. Applications for this class of membership must be made by email to the ECF Office, stating name, address, and date of birth. Club membership and grading reference should also be given if known.

Thanks for alerting us to this, Roger.

I imagine that, unless the situation changes for the National Schools, I'll have to write to the parents of all of my players at school alerting them to the ECF's one-year freebie and advising them to join the ECF sooner rather than later. I then may have to check the membership list at several points in the year (eg. when inviting people to play for a specific match, there will need to be different letters for those who are members as opposed to those who haven't got round to joining; there'll also have to be a statement that if they don't get round to joining the ECF then I won't be able to let them play for the school and may even have to drop them on the day of the match). Whilst I am reluctantly prepared to do all this, I can imagine that many teachers will not have the time or inclination (and I don't blame them). More specifically, there are bound to be problems with match results overturned subsequently, along the lines of Kent-Middlesex, with consequent ill-feeling.