Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:35 pm

William Metcalfe wrote:But Roger promised a huge drop in numbers he predicted a meltdown
It's likely to have happened under the mark 2 version of the membership plans. That was the one where you didn't get a grade unless you were a member.

The three way choice for leagues and Congresses was
(a) withdraw events from grading
(b) ban non-members
(c) find a way of collecting £ 2 a head for non-members.
or some combination of the three.

(a) was relatively infrequent outside junior events. Some went for (b), most others for (c). With Junior events having a much lower per game cost, (c) remained popular.

What we didn't see were hundreds of new players freed at last from the impositions of the hated Game Fee. What we did see was a heavy handed attitude which demanded membership for school matches and arbitrarily defaulted players in county matches.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:43 pm

If you look at the data going back to the mid 2000's it is clear that under game fee there was constant decline in playing numbers. This year there was a smaller than normal decline. It's impossible to say what effect membership may have had until we have next year's data.

What we do know is that over the same period, approximately the same number of games were played in total each year. This year that has gone up 8% which is one of the reasons why there were far more votes available at council yesterday. That can safely be put down to the effect of the membership scheme.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:58 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote: What we do know is that over the same period, approximately the same number of games were played in total each year.
I don't think we know that at all

Halfgames graded
2007 270555
2008 275711
2009 271805
2010 273084
2011 282039
2012 317838
2013 296245

The 13 month period is very good for masking trends.

But there's a possible trade off. Is it better to have more people or more games?

If you think about league play, you only get a real expansion with more teams. I don't see this as having happened, particularly in the North, who have had near compulsory membership in some parts for nearly ten years. You can potentially expand the number of games played by weakening eligibility rules and replacing a first/second/third team structure with graded leagues. It still depends on their being unsatisfied demand or you just end up with defaulted games and matches.

The ECF Council have red-lined the expansion of compulsory membership into schools chess. Was this one of their better or worse decisions?

John McKenna

Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by John McKenna » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:05 am

RdeC>Halfgames graded

2007 270555
2008 275711
2009 271805
2010 273084
2011 282039
2012 317838
2013 296245

The 13 month period is very good for masking trends.

But there's a possible trade off. Is it better to have more people or more games?<

Obviously more people is best for the ECF, as playing more games is for its members, generally.
It may be possible though for more people to play less games than previously. Without all the figures it's just hypothetical.

As for the 13 month period, 'governments' often make 'seasonal' adjustments like that. They are usually asked to justify them, though.

John McKenna

Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by John McKenna » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:15 am

The result of the ECF presidential election has been reported in Chessbase News -

http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211 ... 41013.aspx

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JustinHorton
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:37 am

Andrew Paulson wrote:Is Phil now as toxic as Kirsan, CJ de Mooi and Ray Keene?!
Presumably dinners with Kirsan and CJ will follow?
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John Upham
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by John Upham » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:45 pm

JustinHorton wrote:
Andrew Paulson wrote:Is Phil now as toxic as Kirsan, CJ de Mooi and Ray Keene?!
Presumably dinners with Kirsan and CJ will follow?
Justin,

Have you considered acquiring or renting a property on Clapham Common, North Side?

this may help
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John McKenna

Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by John McKenna » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:15 am

Andrew Paulson wrote:
John McKenna wrote:While Mr. Paulson thinks about that I would also like to ask if he has read Martin Regan's email of 2008 -

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5870

and if he thinks he can succeed where Martin and his team tried hard to change the ECF but eventually had to admit defeat?

(I must go now but will come back later when I get home.)
This question is too difficult.
At the time I thought he ducked the question.
Now I think his answer was spot-on.

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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by David Pardoe » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:42 pm

David Pardoe wrote:
John Upham wrote:
David Pardoe wrote: due in part to a lack of clear information
Please specify what you like more clarity about.
That reference was partly to explain why I believe that many abstain from ECF and other electorial matters.
These folk are often wrongly branded as apathetic, when, in fact they are simply bamboozled or misled by the smoke and mirrors stories that are put in front of them.
The actual full quote was...

Yes...
I asked some questions (made comments), about the voting process on another thread yesterday...
I quote..
My comments above (see P4), were aimed specifically at those with significant perceived vested or commercial interests, who, in my view should be kept at arms length from the main board, because of the ever present dangers that the ECF and its officers could be adversely influenced, and the integrity and independance of the ECF might seriously risk being called into question.
I hope those voting in the ECF elections will consider these and other concerns raised very carefully, before casting those votes, particularly those who have multiple delegate & proxy votes.
Faced with a difficult choice, due in part to a lack of clear information, many delegates dont show up at these meetings, and are accused of apathy, when what many probably suffer from is `bewilderment` and confusion.

Many have expressed concerns about the voting system, its lack of transparancy and being wide open to abuses


But yes, many questions have gone unanswered....is this certain party(s), trying to duck under the radar and bluff there way into office...the evasion has not gone unnoticed.
One can only hope that our electorate are not duped by all this razamataz...
I warned prior to the election last year that ECF `members` were/`should not be` fooled...into going for the `Foolsgold, Frankinstien, and Ehr`.... option.
A certain group of `powerful voters` helped swing this in what I believe to be a very badly constructed voting system.
Yes, its painfully obvious the AP is handcuffed by various percieved conflicts of interest...business/FIDE, etc...
Yes, I can see why certain elements of the electorate were/are sucked into this power vortex.
They want great things for British chess...and quickfire progress...with an injection of big bucks for our top gun GM players.
That is understandable. But there are no quick fixes for British Chess....and it must not sell its soul.

My view is that British Chess tries to run itself on a low representation ticket.
You simply cant run our chess scene via a handful of assorted figures, lerching in different directions, playing personal power games, and indulging in public squabbles.
Roger Edwards would certainly never have allowed this...
What we actually need is much wider active participation and representation at the top levels, and a more energetic dynamic participation at some of the secondary levels in chess.
More progress by `concensus`, and less ego driven power struggles, which have dogged British Chess for years.
Given that many of our aims need to be clarified and developed before progress can be made, it might be useful to stand back and take stock. We actually need a viable long term drive forward, in a number of directions, and this will take time.
Having said this, it is important to realise that chess in the UK is not really driven by a handful of gurus at the `centre`, issuing edicts. It is far more about what the various individual groups that run our chess scene can do to drive things forward on all levels. The ECF has a guiding role, and an `umbrella` role to play in helping to support and guide these groups, but it should not try to dictate from the centre. It has an important role to play in establishing concensus, seeking views, and helping to inform the UK chess community.
Too many in our chess world feel excluded by a lack of sensible balanced information, leaving them sidelined and unable to contribute constructively to British Chess.
BRING BACK THE BCF

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John Upham
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by John Upham » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:23 pm

David Pardoe wrote: Roger Edwards would certainly never have allowed this...
Yes, I can clearly imagine RE asserting his demonstrable authority and bringing the board to book to act in a concerted and business-like manner.

Perhaps you would hope that no members of the board would have any commercial interests in chess, none of them should earn any income from chess and none of them should be involved in any organisations that promote chess. That way they are less likely to have hidden agendas, axes to grind, fueds to settle, personality clashes or indeed hold strong and passionate views about chess.

You will have a board consisting of many safe pairs of hands and I am sure that they would all make light work.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:29 pm

Though funnily enough not much of this stuff actually happened during Roger's term, did it?

I'm sure the BCM would have reported it fully, if it had.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John Upham
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by John Upham » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:36 pm

JustinHorton wrote:Though funnily enough not much of this stuff actually happened during Roger's term, did it?
Though funnily enough not much happened during Roger's term, did it?
Last edited by John Upham on Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JustinHorton
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by JustinHorton » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:54 pm

About which there is a Chinese proverb....
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:33 pm

Yes, it is certainly "interesting times" for the ECF right now!
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Re: Andrew Paulson -- Candidacy for ECF President

Post by David Pardoe » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:47 pm

John Upham wrote:
David Pardoe wrote: Roger Edwards would certainly never have allowed this...
Yes, I can clearly imagine RE asserting his demonstrable authority and bringing the board to book to act in a concerted and business-like manner.

Perhaps you would hope that no members of the board would have any commercial interests in chess, none of them should earn any income from chess and none of them should be involved in any organisations that promote chess. That way they are less likely to have hidden agendas, axes to grind, fueds to settle, personality clashes or indeed hold strong and passionate views about chess.

You will have a board consisting of many safe pairs of hands and I am sure that they would all make light work.

As usual John, your comments widely miss the mark....
Yes, a strong element of commercial clout and action is part of the package of UK chess...but do remember that we portray ourselves as a `not for profit, charitable body`, at least in some quarters....which is a description that does legitimately cover about 99% of players/events in this country. Yes, I agree that the top 1% of professionals merit fair returns for there work in chess.
But the real people driving UK chess are those who actually organise and run the multitude of events up and down the land...not the big wigs, sat in dark corners, trying to plot world domination.
EG..recently we had three quite excellent chess events in the North West..
The Stockport Rapidplay, which attracted over 150 entries, including over 10 rated 200+ & two GMs in the Open section.
The Frodsham Congress which also attracted a good field and had record entries of over 130 players...incidentally, excellently overseen by Roger Edwards and his team of Arbiters and Controllers.
Meanwhile, on the same weekend, the Northern 4NCL league was doing battle at Buxton, not far away, where 14 teams were challenging keenly for honours and the chance of promotion, in what is probably one of the norths strongest top grade regional chess league events .

It would be good if our local/regional Press gave some coverage to such events..but instead they seem to go for Darts, Snooker, and sleaze.
(If chess is to succeed and grow, one of the fundamental needs is better media coverage. This is a `pastime/sport` that has much to offer at all levels to vast numbers of people...many of whom play online to a fairly good standard and dont realise that local clubs in towns near them would love to see them).

These are the kind of bread and butter events which really attract and interest 95% of our players. I`m excluding of course the huge swathes of players who could play. but choose to play `online` and other chess variants.
As regards Roger Edwards...no he did not immerse himself in huge controversy, but instead got on with the business of keeping the wheels turning (and firmly attached to the vehicle). And, under his watch, we had one of the most successful British Championships in recent years, and the Membership scheme did gain street cred and traction.
But for you, it seems that we must have a climate of hysteria and chaos...no doubt that allows you some easy Press stories for your chess rag..

And it wouldn't do to have the Plebs given a `real` voice in all this, would it. Lets just allow the minority 1% moneyspinners (and those with big block votes) to run the show and call the shots...and vote themselves into office, whilst the rest can just remain silent in there boxes on the touchlines.

With a wider base of representation, the whole structure might be a whole lot more stable, make far better and clearly thought through decisions, and carry more weight and credibility.

The question is..how to make these voices count in the current malaise... Also, how do we ensure that British chess goes forward in a sensible and satisfactory manner, to the benefit of the majority. I say one important requirement is much greater consultation and consensus in taking things forward. If that means slow, steady progress, then so be it...Better than chaos and undesirable actions aimed at self fulfilment (greed), at the expense of British Chess.
BRING BACK THE BCF