There are however Congress organisers who consider they are right on every issue. That coupled with a number of undirected proxy votes can allow a handful of individuals to hold the ECF to ransom on particular issues.Andrew Zigmond wrote:What I object to quite strongly is the insinuation that congress organisers are some sort of sinister collective intent on destroying English chess.
Annual General Meeting 2013
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
Are people still moaning about the ECF AGM?
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
I don't see any previous post which contains "the insinuation that congress organisers are some sort of sinister collective intent on destroying English chess." I don't know of any congress organiser who fits that description.Andrew Zigmond wrote:The point a lot of people miss is that the ECF is a federation of organisations, not a membership association.
I agree that the voting system needs reform. What I object to quite strongly is the insinuation that congress organisers are some sort of sinister collective intent on destroying English chess. These are normally the people who are trying to drive chess forward - it is local leagues and associations who have a history of blocking everything that doesn't directly benefit them.
I believe that no congress organiser, however active, should be able to cast fifteen times the number of votes that a medium-sized county has at its disposal at the AGM, which is what was implied earlier in this thread. Many of the same names tend to feature at congresses, so it is not that large a constituency. I presume this antiquated voting system dates back to the time when game fee applied so votes in proportion to games played made some sort of sense, but makes less sense under a membership system.
I agree with Paul McKeown's later post about post-AGM moaning; I think it would be better to start another thread on future ECF voting procedures.
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
Remind me of that when it's time to renew my membership.Andrew Zigmond wrote:The point a lot of people miss is that the ECF is a federation of organisations, not a membership association.
If you want players as members, they should be members both when it's time to pay the annual fees and also when it's time to elect the ECF management.
If you don't wont them as members, please don't force them funding the entire operations.
I'd be ok with players being just "customers" of the federation, if you like better a federation of congresses. But then I'd like to be free to choose which services to buy...
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
It's possible to imply many things, but it doesn't make them true. It is perhaps better to stick to the facts. Leicestershire is a medium sized county (about 250 players) and commands 5 votes. e2e4 is the largest congress on the ECF council. Nearly 1,000 players played an e2e4 event in the last 12 months. e2e4 has 10 votes.John Swain wrote:I believe that no congress organiser, however active, should be able to cast fifteen times the number of votes that a medium-sized county has at its disposal at the AGM, which is what was implied earlier in this thread.
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
You can see the make up of ECF Council, how many votes each organisation has etc here:
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... -8-Oct.pdf
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... -8-Oct.pdf
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
Thanks for the link, Mick. As you've probably gathered, I'm a relative novice on the arcane workings and mysteries of the ECF Council voting system.Mick Norris wrote:You can see the make up of ECF Council, how many votes each organisation has etc here:
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... -8-Oct.pdf
As I said earlier on this thread, I think it would be a good idea to look to the future, rather than dwelling on the AGM, and therefore I'll start another thread so that others more expert than me can offer their defence (if any) of the existing system and proposals for the future.
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
Good, maybe Carl can lock this thread
Any postings on here represent my personal views
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
Looking at the facts. In regard to the full delegate and proxy votes that you controlled, what was your allocation to each of the NEDs in the ECF election for those directors?Sean Hewitt wrote:It's possible to imply many things, but it doesn't make them true. It is perhaps better to stick to the facts. Leicestershire is a medium sized county (about 250 players) and commands 5 votes. e2e4 is the largest congress on the ECF council. Nearly 1,000 players played an e2e4 event in the last 12 months. e2e4 has 10 votes.John Swain wrote:I believe that no congress organiser, however active, should be able to cast fifteen times the number of votes that a medium-sized county has at its disposal at the AGM, which is what was implied earlier in this thread.
As regards the numbers represented, these are a total irrelevance if the actual amount/number of members consulted is only very fractional, and perhaps selective, depending on how you go about any consultations.
I notice that some people here seem to think that delegate votes for congress organisors are some kind of personal chip that they are awarded, to use as they think fit? Proper & fair representation of views is essential if the credibility of elections is to be maintained.
BRING BACK THE BCF
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Re: Annual General Meeting 2013
Customers seem far better a word to describe ECF tax payers than members. If they're going to tax you, they should at least give you equal votes.