ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:59 pm

David Sedgwick wrote: I do not find your proposed course of action "perfectly acceptable". You should pay the €80, or get the Bermuda Chess Federation to do so.
My point was that the AC finds it perfectly acceptable, they just want their €20. Of course we would prefer to have our tournament arbited by someone who knows the rules, but the AC levies a €60 surcharge for that privilege. For a six player tournament where there is little chance of any trouble, I don't see that as money well spent.

When the ECF and others objected to this scheme in 2011, where exactly were you?

When I submitted detailed proposals in 2012 to remedy the worst iniquities of the scheme by integrating the Title Fees and the Licence Fees, where exactly were you?
I opposed the scheme at the Krakow EB, if that's what you mean. I raised my hand to speak, but took it down when other people said exactly what I wanted to say, and were clearly getting nowhere. Bermuda voted against it.

Where was your 2012 proposal tabled? I didn't go to the AC's Istanbul meeting because I was very busy with QC regulations and in any case get sick from listening to arbiters talking about money. All I can find in the minutes is

"Mrs. Lara Barnes (ENG), on behalf of David Sedgwick, requests that the fees would be
substantially lower and the inactive arbiters shall not pay again for the License."

I assume that was a lead balloon.

I did oppose putting the Licensed Arbiter requirement in the Rating Regulations, but was told it was a done deal. I got no support and decided there were better fights to pick.

I'm puzzled by the hostility of your comments, when we are obviously of one mind on this issue.
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Mike Truran
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Mike Truran » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:37 pm

I have just received this email from Werner Stubenwohl; Chairman of the Qualification Commission which is in charge of titles and ratings.
And on that bombshell ......

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:08 pm

Mike Truran wrote:
I have just received this email from Werner Stubenwohl; Chairman of the Qualification Commission which is in charge of titles and ratings.
And on that bombshell ......
There is an update with which I am entirely satisfied, but I should probably leave it to Stewart.....
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Stewart Reuben
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Stewart Reuben » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:58 pm

I have just seen this email from Werner while in Southend.

Dear Stewart,
sorry, but I have to change the answer I gave to you in my last mail. Nick Faulks drew my attention to the actual wording.
For rating purposes it is not necessary to have an arbiter present in the tournament venue.
Please accept my apologize.
Best regards
Werner

It will never do if this type of thing continues. That the secretary of a commission knows the rules1

Sean Hewitt
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:07 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Dear Stewart,
sorry, but I have to change the answer I gave to you in my last mail. Nick Faulks drew my attention to the actual wording.
For rating purposes it is not necessary to have an arbiter present in the tournament venue.
Please accept my apologize.
Best regards
Werner
Thanks for confirming that the ECF's stance on this was correct. I do hope that this is now puts the matter to bed. As I said before, the ECF has rated, and will continue to rate events where an arbiter is not present.

NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by NickFaulks » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:22 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:I have just seen this email from Werner while in Southend.
Ah, Southend, that has always been a great Easter tournament. It featured my only game where an opponent has arrived at the board with a paper bag of jellied eels - and, to be fair, offered me one.
Last edited by NickFaulks on Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:57 am

Stewart Reuben wrote: I have just seen this email from Werner while in Southend.

Dear Stewart,
sorry, but I have to change the answer I gave to you in my last mail. Nick Faulks drew my attention to the actual wording.
For rating purposes it is not necessary to have an arbiter present in the tournament venue.
Please accept my apologize.
Best regards
Werner

It will never do if this type of thing continues. That the secretary of a commission knows the rules!
NickFaulks wrote: There is an update with which I am entirely satisfied, but I should probably leave it to Stewart.....
Congratulations on obtaining a decision in your favour at least for the present.

David Sedgwick
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by David Sedgwick » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:59 am

NickFaulks wrote:I'm puzzled by the hostility of your comments, when we are obviously of one mind on this issue.
Yes, my comments were over the top. Please would you accept my apologies.

I'll respond more fully later.

Nick Grey
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:34 pm

Players appreciate arbiters (& organisers) & have sympathy with fees, taxes, licences which just make the game more expensive for everyone.

FIDE seem to expect that arbiters are more than volunteers. At the top they must be professional.

The best arbiting I have seen - circa 1986 - Leicester Square, LONDON...

ARBITER
If you're thinking of the kind of thing
That we've seen in the past
Chanting gurus, walkie-talkies, walkouts, hypnotists,
Tempers, fists
Not so fast!

I don't care if you're a champion
No-one messes with me
I am ruthless in upholding what I know is right
Black or white
As you'll see

I'm on the case
Can't be fooled
Any objection
Is overruled
Yes I'm the Arbiter and I know best

CHORUS
He's impartial don't push him he's unimpressed

Nick Grey
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Nick Grey » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:42 pm

A musical with great songs & lyrics (after all the 2 Bs from ABBA & Tim Rice), titantic love stories, & a number of twist & turns as you expect from Top-Level Chess.

& a final warning from Tim Rice with elections etc...

ARBITER
As you settle down behind your pawns
Power passes to me
You can play like Fischer, Capablanca, Tal combined
I don't mind -
Please feel free!

They all thought they were the big fromage
But they don't have my clout
I control the match; I start it, I can call it off
Kasparov
Found that out

I'm on the case
Can't be fooled
Any objection
Is overruled
Yes, I'm the Arbiter I know the score

CHORUS
From square one he'll be watching all sixty-four!

Neill Cooper
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Neill Cooper » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:19 pm

Changing tack, at the Council Meeting Nigel Short pointed out that in France and Germany they have (iirc) 70,000+ members of their national chess federations. The question is how, as a first step, do we raise our membership from 10,000 to 20,000. This is particularly difficult as this is more than than number of graded players.
Increasing the number of junior members, via the free one year membership, may be one way. Not only has it proved popular in some quarters but I think it will lead on to more junior members next year.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:38 pm

Neill Cooper wrote:Changing tack, at the Council Meeting Nigel Short pointed out that in France and Germany they have (iirc) 70,000+ members of their national chess federations. The question is how, as a first step, do we raise our membership from 10,000 to 20,000. This is particularly difficult as this is more than than number of graded players.
Increasing the number of junior members, via the free one year membership, may be one way. Not only has it proved popular in some quarters but I think it will lead on to more junior members next year.
I've had a surprising number of new junior members join my club this year - and I'm determined to keep them. Equally surprising was that two joined as existing members of the ECF.

It would help if we could improve our `package`, particularly to junior members. Two punchy in house magazines (one for primary age, one for secondary) would be a big help - from a club secretary perspective it's a far better sell than having to explain the minutiae of the grading and game fee system.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:39 pm

Neill Cooper wrote: The question is how, as a first step, do we raise our membership from 10,000 to 20,000. This is particularly difficult as this is more than than number of graded players.
Not only that it's more than the total playing any form of graded chess. Arguably by comparison with past history, the barrel is well and truly scraped in terms of grading just about anything.

So if you are talking adults, you have to double the size of every club or double the number of clubs. That would be a good thing if it happened and whether these new players became ECF members is an irrelevance. It's pie in the sky to expect non-players to become members of the ECF. OK if you wanted to, you could give a free membership to every participant in the Basman Chess Challenge. As the idea of membership was to make more money for the ECF than the Game Fee system, giving away membership doesn't exactly achieve this.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:43 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote: Two punchy in house magazines (one for primary age, one for secondary) would be a big help - from a club secretary perspective it's a far better sell than having to explain the minutiae of the grading and game fee system.
The ECF had a junior magazine not so long ago. It was cancelled as a means of saving money. As membership is all about raising money for the ECF, the least you give back the better.

Neill Cooper
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Re: ECF Council Meeting 12 April 2014

Post by Neill Cooper » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:50 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Neill Cooper wrote:Changing tack, at the Council Meeting Nigel Short pointed out that in France and Germany they have (iirc) 70,000+ members of their national chess federations. The question is how, as a first step, do we raise our membership from 10,000 to 20,000. This is particularly difficult as this is more than than number of graded players.
Increasing the number of junior members, via the free one year membership, may be one way. Not only has it proved popular in some quarters but I think it will lead on to more junior members next year.
I've had a surprising number of new junior members join my club this year - and I'm determined to keep them. Equally surprising was that two joined as existing members of the ECF.

It would help if we could improve our `package`, particularly to junior members. Two punchy in house magazines (one for primary age, one for secondary) would be a big help - from a club secretary perspective it's a far better sell than having to explain the minutiae of the grading and game fee system.
Great to hear of the members. The best I can offer myself is my secondary school chess news: http://englishchess.org.uk/Juniors/scho ... hool-news/ which I will happily email to anyone who would like a copy.

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