ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Matthew Turner
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:05 pm

The problem is that you need to find a free venue and I just cannot see that happening in Scotland (or London). 2015 is Warwick, 2016 will be Scarborough, 2017 Torquay and 2018 some other campus University. That is just the nature of the event in its current format.

Alan Tate
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Alan Tate » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:26 pm

Matthew, Perhaps it was mentioned but I wasn't aware that the venue has to be free. Still, I can't understand why it would be harder to find one in Scotland than in the rest of the UK?

Matthew Turner
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Matthew Turner » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:43 pm

Where is going to provide a free venue?
A seaside resort in economic decline or a university that takes a punt on the chess because they might not attract more lucrative conferences.
Do such places exist in Scotland? I'm not sure that they do. If you look at the Scottish Championships in 2013 then Helensburgh might conceivably fit into the first category, however, would there be a playing venue big enough? If you can find a venue in Scotland then the British will come; I might be wrong but I don't fancy your chances.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:59 pm

Matthew Turner wrote:Where is going to provide a free venue?
A seaside resort in economic decline or a university that takes a punt on the chess because they might not attract more lucrative conferences ....

Or a seaside resort that is not in economic decline, but which is asked to provide a free venue at a time that is not the peak of their year anyway.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:08 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote: Or a seaside resort that is not in economic decline, but which is asked to provide a free venue at a time that is not the peak of their year anyway.
If you are running an event only for chess professionals or Seniors, that's quite plausible. With the event also catering for school and university students, along with adults required for whatever reasons to take their holidays in the school holidays, you are rather stuck with the mid July to end August date range. At a pinch, I suppose you could try to use the Easter holiday period or set up in competition to Hastings and run it over the New Year.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:18 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Jonathan Bryant wrote: Or a seaside resort that is not in economic decline, but which is asked to provide a free venue at a time that is not the peak of their year anyway.
If you are running an event only for chess professionals or Seniors, that's quite plausible. With the event also catering for school and university students, along with adults required for whatever reasons to take their holidays in the school holidays, you are rather stuck with the mid July to end August date range. At a pinch, I suppose you could try to use the Easter holiday period or set up in competition to Hastings and run it over the New Year.
Oh, sure. I was just saying that it’s going to be hard to get somebody to give you a free venue - or get a council to pay for one for you - when the town’s going to be pretty busy anyway.

Alan Tate
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Alan Tate » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:19 pm

Some interesting points, not sure if the people of Helensburgh would agree though ;). Even if it was not possible, sponsors exist. 2018 is a long way away, and things might change drastically in September. If the powers that be are interested then I'll definitely give it a shot.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:34 am

Matthew Turner wrote:The problem is that you need to find a free venue and I just cannot see that happening in Scotland (or London). 2015 is Warwick, 2016 will be Scarborough, 2017 Torquay and 2018 some other campus University. That is just the nature of the event in its current format.
Is this definitely the case, given that Warwick was only announced a few weeks ago (Aberystwyth was announced roughly the same time last year) and somebody in Yorkshire seemed to think up to that point 2015 would be Plymouth? I'm not sure if there is a formal `bidding` process as such but if somebody wanted to bring the British to their town and was prepared to do a lot of the prep work I'm sure the ECF would listen.
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Ken Norman
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Ken Norman » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:57 am

Matthew Turner wrote:The problem is that you need to find a free venue and I just cannot see that happening in Scotland (or London). 2015 is Warwick, 2016 will be Scarborough, 2017 Torquay and 2018 some other campus University. That is just the nature of the event in its current format.
As to the venues for the British Championships being Scarborough 2016 and Torquay 2017 is that speculation by Matthew Turner or does he have access to information not available to ordinary ECF members?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:58 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Is this definitely the case, given that Warwick was only announced a few weeks ago (Aberystwyth was announced roughly the same time last year)
I thought Matthew was just making a prediction or speculating, rather than anything he knew.
Andrew Zigmond wrote: I'm not sure if there is a formal `bidding` process as such but if somebody wanted to bring the British to their town and was prepared to do a lot of the prep work I'm sure the ECF would listen.
I think that's often the way it works. It's probably necessary to give at least two years notice as the venue for year N+1 needs to be known for the Congress in year N

Matthew Turner
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Matthew Turner » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:04 am

Sorry for causing some confusion. I was merely speculating about where the venue might be in 2016 and 2017 in order to illustrate that the current format/conditions severely limit the number (and type) of potential venues. Nothing necessarily wrong with this of course, I think Scarborough and Torquay are rather good venues.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:12 am

Andrew Zigmond wrote: and somebody in Yorkshire seemed to think up to that point 2015 would be Plymouth?
Back in 2012 Plymouth were expressing interest, but that was for 2013 to replace Torquay. 2014 would have been unlikely because it would be the same part of the world two years running, so 2015 was a possibility. As that isn't happening, perhaps they've lost interest, unless they are pencilled in for 2016. Llandudno has been mentioned in the past but Aberystwyth rules that out for a few years, and it may well have been dropped anyway.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:40 pm

Just considering Scottish venues.
1985 Edinburgh venue paid for by the sponsors Grieveson, Grant.
1993 Dundee University venue free. Plenty of English went, but fewer Scots. They had arranged their 100th Championship in St Andrews just a couple of weeks before and didn't tell me. We could have just as well gone in 1994. It lost money.
2003 Edinburgh at a school. Venue paid for by the Scottish Tourist Board.
I also considered Perth - nothing wrong with that and they should be approached again.
Oban - wonderful, but the sponsor wanted Edinubrgh. The venue I remember is now too small. Rothesay and Dunoon not very attractive. Glasgow they would charge. When I looked there would have been hostility to Glasgow, I doubt that would be true now. I never went to see Inverness as they wouldn't close down their entertainment centre. Aberdeen was too expensive. Edinburgh just before the Festival was very successful both times.

A venue could be paid for. Torquay 2013 it was £10,000 and the increased entry fee income more than covered that.
Some of the organisers have seemed reluctant to look a long way in advance. I have no idea why.
I got Sheffield free in 2011. I think I was told that they were dissatisfied with the income and would charge in the future. That is not insurmountable. Sheffield is a thriving chess community. People could offer rooms in their homes free or at low rates. That was what was done in Edinburgh in 1985.
Any time we can get Llandudno, I would snap it up. Even had it been next year. The problem has been that, our tradional dates are always booked. If we could have got it the last 2 weeks in August, I would have risked the change in dates this year - and of course solved the scheduling problem.

When the event started in 1904, people only had holidays in the summer. It could be changed to Easter, but that would be difficult as there are so many other chess events.

The players should be asked what type of premium they would pay for a good venue.

Alan Tate
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by Alan Tate » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:30 pm

That's encouraging Stewart, thanks for all the background information - it's good to know we are still on the radar :). Edinburgh seems to be a popular choice but Glasgow is also fine, as are many other cities, especially further north.
This might seem obvious but a modest 800 competitors paying an extra £15 gives £12000 seems to me like a small price to pay for a quality event, and I'd hope that such an entry fee would not be too prohibitive.
Incorporating the Scottish into the British (I don't know if this is possible) is an idea and would hopefully produce a decent Scottish entry and prevent a reoccurrence of Dundee 1993.

PeterFarr
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Re: ABERYSTWYTH - ARE YOU GOING?

Post by PeterFarr » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:54 pm

Fair comments from Alan aren't they? - that's from a dyed-in-the-wool southerner. Fascinating insights from Stewart also. I can't help thinking that change is as good as a rest for venues, and there has to be a responsibility to take the championships around the Islands, even if that means the numbers fluctuate.

How about Dublin or Belfast btw?