Wikipedia

[Roger de Coverly]

Delegates are as 1921 (SCCU and Life Members delegates are identified this time), plus delegates from "House of Commons Chess Circle", South Wales and Calcutta Chess Society.

It look as if Membership was available to any "British" organisation that they were prepared to accept as members. I wonder when the extension expecting individual counties to also be members took place.

I believe at some stage South Wales had been regarded as part of the SCCU.

[Kevin Thurlow]

1924 year book

British Correspondence Chess Association are added to list of delegates.

West of Scotland won the postal event, South Wales also played.

Scottish Chess Association has its own section in club directory, "Northern Ireland" now has two clubs (the other in Portadown), and there is now an entry for, "Irish Free State", Irish Chess Union, Hon Sec, H N Bowesman, 33 Claremount Rd, Sandymount Dublin, and three clubs, Dublin town, Rathmines (Dublin) and Limerick.

British Columbia, Malta and British Guiana have clubs as well.

The Annual Report says that, "The assistance of the Federation was sought by the Committee of the Aonac Tailteann (Irish Games) Competitions held in July and August this year in respect to the Chess Tournaments, and the fullest possible help and information in matters of detail and obtaining material were willingly afforded and warmly acknowledged. It may be of interest to mention that the enterprise was the revival of ancient competitions in Ireland, and that it is proposed to hold the Games every four years, and that the Irish National Championship is a competition apart from the Aonac Tailteann."

For some reason that item was mentioned after, "The Annual Marine and Small Craft Exhibition and Congress having been enlarged to include all sports and pastimes the Mangers have requested the co-operation of the Federation with the idea of including Chess in the Exhibition of April, 1925, at the Agricultural Hall, Islington."

[Kevin Thurlow]

1925 year Book

reported "Great Britain" had joined FIDE.

Cork were in ICU.

1929 - Sultan Khan wins the British Championship

"Mr FD Yates and Sir GA Thomas were engaged in the Masters' Tournament in Carlsbad, and they were greatly missed in the British Championship. The inclusion of the All India champion, Mir Sultan Khan, was, however, a notable incident which became of greater significance when he added the title of British Champion to his Indian honour."

Hmm.

Miss MD Gilchrist (Scotland) won the ladies title. The Major open (12 player APA) was won by Seitz and Vajda on 9, Vukovic got 8.5, Noteboom 8, and the top English player 5.5

[Roger de Coverly]

1924 year book
Scottish Chess Association has its own section in club directory, "Northern Ireland" now has two clubs (the other in Portadown), and there is now an entry for, "Irish Free State", Irish Chess Union, Hon Sec, H N Bowesman, 33 Claremount Rd, Sandymount Dublin, and three clubs, Dublin town, Rathmines (Dublin) and Limerick.

It was established in the 1921 material that the Scottish Chess Association were members with a say in governance. Did the Irish Chess Union become voting or non-voting members, or are they just listed for completeness?

[John McKenna]

So, long story short, Roger, your contention doesn't dispute my original post, that Northern Ireland was not treated differently than the rest of Ireland, apart possibly from at some period with respect to participation of citizens in British Championship congresses, as it was always an integral part of the ICU?

We haven't established whether the ICU was ever a voting member of the BCF as the Reuben/Poole history suggests that Scotland was. Timing would seem against it.

The ICU may not have been regarded as an important body. There isn't a mention in the history of the Dublin club of that period, nor the BCF for that matter...

The ICU was not the first such body in Ireland, see -

http://www.chessarch.com/archive/0012_i ... land.shtml

From which -

The Irish Chess Association was founded in the spring of 1885 and held its first annual meeting in Dublin from the 3rd to the 17th October 1885. It is reported in the Irish Times that the opening night was in the rooms of St. Patrick’s Chess Club at Byrne’s Restaurant, Nassau Street -

The President, Mr T. Long, BA, occupied the chair, and there was a large attendance of members, among whom were Mr W. W. Mackeson, QC, of London and W. H. K. Pollock, of Bath. In an able speech Mr Long pointed out the many advantages of the organisation and said that England had its chess association, Scotland had its chess association, and why should not Ireland have its chess association? The healthy and intellectual pastime should be encouraged and played north, south, east and west, in every county and in every town. He warmly thanked the promoters of the association, and said that much credit was due to them, particularly to Mr P. Rynd and Mr T. B. Rowland, who were foremost in their exertions to make the meeting a success.

...

He [T. B. Rowland] was probably recalling past glories when he had this letter published in the Belfast Newsletter on the 2nd December 1926, shortly before that year’s championship began in Belfast -

There is no truth in the statement that the Irish Chess Union is the directing body of chess affairs in Ireland. The Irish Chess Association, which numbers over 500 members, was founded in 1885... and has since then kept alive chess throughout the whole of Ireland, and is the only organisation that has done so.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

A bit late for the FIDE election, but couldn't Kirsan and Garry have fought over which Irish chess body would vote for them? (I suppose that is a roundabout way of asking what happened to the Irish Chess Association? Well, um, referring to Wikipedia again (with the usual caveats):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Chess_Union

"Before the establishment of the ICU, chess competitions in Ireland were run under organisations named The Irish Chess Association (formed in 1885), the Hibernia Chess Association, or various chess clubs. The Armstrong Cup is the oldest Irish team league competition and has been played every year since 1888, perhaps giving it a claim on the longest running chess competition in the world."

Of interest to Paul, though he probably knows this already:

"In 2005, in a dispute over fees, the Ulster Chess Union (UCU), which administers and develops chess in Northern Ireland, decided to end its affiliation to the Irish Chess Union although the UCU accepted the ICU's continued organization of the All-Ireland Championships. The UCU's application to affiliate to FIDE was rebuffed."

That is sourced to here:

http://www.icu.ie/articles/7

The ICA bit is not (yet) sourced, though see the link John provided above.

Interesting site that:

http://www.chessarch.com/

Not seen that before.

So did the ICA just quietly expire at some point?

[Gordon Cadden]

Delegates are as 1921 (SCCU and Life Members delegates are identified this time), plus delegates from "House of Commons Chess Circle", South Wales and Calcutta Chess Society.

It look as if Membership was available to any "British" organisation that they were prepared to accept as members. I wonder when the extension expecting individual counties to also be members took place.

I believe at some stage South Wales had been regarded as part of the SCCU.

Not the South Wales Chess Association, but at a Meeting in Crumlin, 1935, the Monmouthshire County Chess Association agreed to join the SCCU. They remained a member of the SCCU, until the Welsh Chess Union was formed.

[Mick Norris]

1921 BCF Year book says BCF Council includes

President, 6 VPs, Delegates from London Chess League, MCCU, NCCU, SCCU, Scottish CA, Life Members, British chess problem society, Trustees of Permanent Invested Fund, Treasurer, Secretary, Auditor.

The Manchester League was a founding member of the BCF in 1904 and has been a constituent unit ever since, so would have been on BCF Council in 1921 presumably

[Kevin Thurlow]

"The Manchester League was a founding member of the BCF in 1904 and has been a constituent unit ever since, so would have been on BCF Council in 1921 presumably"

Not according to the BCF Year Book...

"Did the Irish Chess Union become voting or non-voting members, or are they just listed for completeness?"

They just seem to be listed in the Club Directory at the back, (which may be "an informative annex"), they are not mentioned in the front where the Council members are identified.

I did notice that the Calcutta club had a named delegate but whether he came over for the AGM is not clear!

[Nigel Short]

Mick, you are wrong. The Northern, Midlands and Southern Counties Chess Unions, along with the London League were the original founding members of the BCF in 1904. I have the relevant British Chess Magazine in front of me.

The Scottish Chess Association joined the BCF in 1908, but left in 1930 - the same year that it tried to join FIDE, but was rejected unanimously (with 4 abstentions). The SCA was however admitted to FIDE in 1932 (with only Great Britain abstaining). See my forthcoming article on Scottish chess in New in Chess magazine, 2014, issue 7.

[Mick Norris]

Mick, you are wrong. The Northern, Midlands and Southern Counties Chess Unions, along with the London League were the original founding members of the BCF in 1904. I have the relevant British Chess Magazine in front of me.

I am quoting Alan Smith, recently retired Archivist for the MCF

You can read it here
http://www.manchesterchessfederation.co.uk/page63.html

I'd be surprised if Alan was wrong

If he was, when did the Manchester League become a constituent unit of the BCF?

[Roger de Coverly]

If he was, when did the Manchester League become a constituent unit of the BCF?

The history in the 2004 Yearbook by John Poole and Stewart Reuben also has the SCCU, MCCU and NCCU along with the London League founding the BCF.

[Mick Norris]

If he was, when did the Manchester League become a constituent unit of the BCF?

The history in the 2004 Yearbook by John Poole and Stewart Reuben also has the SCCU, MCCU and NCCU along with the London League founding the BCF.

Well, Alan has got his info from somewhere

I can see it is logical that the EACU and WECU became constituent units when they were founded at a later date, but as the MDCA (the Manchester League) was founded before the BCF (indeed changed its name to the MDCA in 1897), it doesn't seem logical that it would become a constituent unit of the BCF at a later date

[Roger de Coverly]

it doesn't seem logical that it would become a constituent unit of the BCF at a later date

If the Yearbooks of the 1920s don't have it as a constituent member or even a member of the BCF Council, that implies it acquired its status at a later date.

Would it have been the country's second largest non-county league?

[Nigel Short]

Mick, I can only think that the Manchester League was a constituent part of the NCCU, and therefore indirectly of the BCF. That it did not not have any independent status within the BCF is abundantly clear, so probably you have been labouring under a misapprehension. I am a Lancastrian and would like what you have stated to be true. However I have seen absolutely no evidence for it.