Board minutes

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Alan Kennedy
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Alan Kennedy » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:14 pm

Bob Kane wrote:The CEO does seem to be guided by the adopted ECF communications document , and its policy of openness towards members .

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... rategy.pdf
Or alternatively, he is guided by principles of good corporate governance and years of experience of successfully running organisations.

Mike Truran
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:22 pm

Outrageous flattery won't get you out of producing the junior certificates for next Sunday's Witney Rapidplay. :twisted:

Alan Kennedy
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Alan Kennedy » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:32 pm

Mike Truran wrote:Outrageous flattery won't get you out of producing the junior certificates for next Sunday's Witney Rapidplay. :twisted:
Mike thanks for the reminder - what will outrageous flattery get me?! :D Well done on the board report and your own election address btw. Both very impressive documents.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:47 pm

Alan Kennedy wrote: Well done on the board report
Just reading through this and picking up on this comment.
One area which can certainly be addressed is the issue of pay to play fees for occasional players, which the Board accepts is at best an irksome administrative task both for chess organisers and for the ECF, and may at worst be discouraging casual players and other infrequent players from engaging in competitive chess. As noted in the Finance section above, we hope to bring forward proposals on this at next April’s Council meeting.
So what are the options?

(1) The ECF could raise money based on the number of games submitted for grading. That ought to be straightforward but problematic given the hatred expressed by some Board and Council members for this method.

(2) The ECF could demand that every person who plays even a single game becomes an ECF member. That brings with it, the need to sanction those who are not members. Leaving them out of grading is possible but brings its own adverse consequences. Charging a fine to organisers for allowing them to participate is also an option, if unpalatable.


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Michael Flatt
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Michael Flatt » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:01 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alan Kennedy wrote: Well done on the board report
Just reading through this and picking up on this comment.
One area which can certainly be addressed is the issue of pay to play fees for occasional players, which the Board accepts is at best an irksome administrative task both for chess organisers and for the ECF, and may at worst be discouraging casual players and other infrequent players from engaging in competitive chess. As noted in the Finance section above, we hope to bring forward proposals on this at next April’s Council meeting.
So what are the options?

(1) The ECF could raise money based on the number of games submitted for grading. That ought to be straightforward but problematic given the hatred expressed by some Board and Council members for this method.

(2) The ECF could demand that every person who plays even a single game becomes an ECF member. That brings with it, the need to sanction those who are not members. Leaving them out of grading is possible but brings its own adverse consequences. Charging a fine to organisers for allowing them to participate is also an option, if unpalatable.
That's an interesting find. Not that long ago that I made a suggestion to abolish game fees for players who have played less than 5 games.
It didn't seem to be very well received by some: http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8633

The Treasurer of our club is not at all happy at having discovered that players have incurred these fees and then have have to collect them from players who may or may not be joining the club this year. It does cause club treasurers and ECF staff a great deal of time and effort.

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John Upham
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Re: Board minutes

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:09 am

Michael Flatt wrote:
The Treasurer of our club is not at all happy at having discovered that players have incurred these fees and then have have to collect them from players who may or may not be joining the club this year. It does cause club treasurers and ECF staff a great deal of time and effort.

Clubs should adopt the position table tennis clubs take on this matter.

I cannot play any games in any leagues for any clubs unless I am a member of Table Tennis England.

Nobody argues, they get on with it.

If you claim that chess is special and you should adopt a much more lax approach then I would laugh.
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John Upham
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Re: Board minutes

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:10 am

John Upham wrote:
Michael Flatt wrote:
The Treasurer of our club is not at all happy at having discovered that players have incurred these fees and then have have to collect them from players who may or may not be joining the club this year. It does cause club treasurers and ECF staff a great deal of time and effort.

Clubs should adopt the position table tennis clubs take on this matter.

I cannot play any games of table tennis in any leagues for any clubs unless I am a member of Table Tennis England.

Nobody argues, they get on with it.

I took 10 minutes to renew my membership and job done.

If you claim that chess is special and you should adopt a much more lax approach then I would laugh.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:17 am

John Upham wrote:
If you claim that chess is special and you should adopt a much more lax approach then I would laugh.
Are there players in a queue to take part in League table tennis? That might have been the position in chess in 1973, but any attempt to enforce such a rule is likely to see a wholesale collapse of evening leagues. But perhaps they and the chess clubs who support them are an obsolete concept and deserve closure.

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John Upham
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Re: Board minutes

Post by John Upham » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:02 am

Roger de Coverly wrote:
John Upham wrote:
If you claim that chess is special and you should adopt a much more lax approach then I would laugh.
Are there players in a queue to take part in League table tennis? That might have been the position in chess in 1973, but any attempt to enforce such a rule is likely to see a wholesale collapse of evening leagues. But perhaps they and the chess clubs who support them are an obsolete concept and deserve closure.

A typical TT team consists of three players. Each players plays one singles with each of the opposing teams players. One doubles is played results in a total of 10 games per match. Each games consists of the best of 5 ends or sets.

Most squads for each team are of 5-6 players so there is demand to play. I would say there is more demand for places in teams in TT than there is in chess.

Here is a radical suggestion: what makes playing league chess in the evenings preferable in the UK compared with the continent?

League chess on the continent is more likely to be played at weekends. What is the rationale for this?
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Mick Norris
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:18 am

Alex Holowczak wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:
Julie Denning wrote:The ECF this year set up the "Ask a Director" facility via its website. So far not a single question has come my way.
I can't see the point of that facility. If I want to ask a Director something, I email that Director.
Some people don't feel comfortable doing that though, perhaps.

I've received several questions via that mechanism, nearly always from people I hadn't previously heard of.
Anything of wider interest Alex (without disclosing the names of those who have contacted you)?
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:29 am

Mick Norris wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote: I can't see the point of that facility. If I want to ask a Director something, I email that Director.
Some people don't feel comfortable doing that though, perhaps.

I've received several questions via that mechanism, nearly always from people I hadn't previously heard of.
Anything of wider interest Alex (without disclosing the names of those who have contacted you)?
Not really. I had lots of questions asking me where the 2017 British Championships were before we announced it. I've had a few questions about how to calculate their grade in certain situations. I had one asking for some historic County Championship results. Things like that really.

There are some important questions though - I've had one question asking me where the final schedule of the 2017 British, which I said I'd publish at the end of August, is. :oops:

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Board minutes

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:08 am

John Upham wrote: Here is a radical suggestion: what makes playing league chess in the evenings preferable in the UK compared with the continent?

League chess on the continent is more likely to be played at weekends. What is the rationale for this?
Weekend congresses compete for chess players' time at weekends over here. Do they do the same to anything like the same extent on the continent?

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JustinHorton
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Re: Board minutes

Post by JustinHorton » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:10 am

Well in Spain the working day doesn't finish till much later, so you play at the weekend because you have to.
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Alex Holowczak
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Re: Board minutes

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:14 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:
John Upham wrote: Here is a radical suggestion: what makes playing league chess in the evenings preferable in the UK compared with the continent?

League chess on the continent is more likely to be played at weekends. What is the rationale for this?
Weekend congresses compete for chess players' time at weekends over here. Do they do the same to anything like the same extent on the continent?
I dabbled with running a local Sunday league, as had Mike Truran in Oxfordshire. There really wasn't a satisfactory demand for them to make the competitions viable.

Of course, most typical club venues don't want the business at weekends either.

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Re: Board minutes

Post by Angus French » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:56 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alan Kennedy wrote: Well done on the board report
Just reading through this and picking up on this comment.
One area which can certainly be addressed is the issue of pay to play fees for occasional players, which the Board accepts is at best an irksome administrative task both for chess organisers and for the ECF, and may at worst be discouraging casual players and other infrequent players from engaging in competitive chess. As noted in the Finance section above, we hope to bring forward proposals on this at next April’s Council meeting.
There's a bit more:
Board report to Council, Finance section wrote:… work is in hand to review game fee billing; this is both an onerous and a manual process as regards which, if the effort involved were charged to the ECF rather than being carried out by volunteers, the cost would doubtless exceed the income generated. We hope to bring forward proposals to next April’s Council meeting that will address these and other issues.
and
Dave Thomas’s election address wrote:We are continuing to consider what might be done to replace the residual amount of Game Fee which the Federation still collects. When the new Membership Scheme was introduced it was envisaged that the continuation of Game Fee would only be a transitional arrangement; the expense (whether in cash or volunteer time) of collecting it is out of proportion to the income it yields. The problem which has to be solved is how to simultaneously avoid creating a barrier to casual players by setting the minimum fee to be paid too high (the perception being that insisting on universal bronze membership at the current rate would have that effect) and impacting the Federation's income by enabling existing Bronze members to select a cheaper option. Two possibilities are currently under consideration: one is to introduce a lower category of membership which would entitle the member to play only a limited number of games, and the other is to permit a minimum number of games without any payment but charge Game Fee (at a significantly higher level than at present) on all games of players who play more than that minimum. In either case the suggestion is that the Leagues in which the player competes are responsible to the Federation for the fee; it would be impractical for the Federation to attempt to recover excess costs directly from the individual player. Unfortunately both proposals would require accessing a count of the games played by each non-member, and it is this aspect of the present system which causes the perceived cost to the Federation.

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