An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Brian Towers
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:58 am

David Sedgwick wrote:
Brian Towers wrote:Two expressions come to mind. One about the usefulness in having a dog and barking oneself and the other that famous old Times headline: "Heavy Fog In Channel. Continent Cut Off". Why am I surprised that the "Little Englander" spirit lives on into the 21st century?
The second expression is not the most appropriate to quote in this context. Many Continental Federations, including France just across the Channel, have stringent national requirements which arbiters have to satisfy before they can even commence the process of acquiring the FA title. Nowadays that's not the case in England.
We seem to be talking at cross purposes here. The French approach seems very sensible and is similar to that of the ICF.

No, what I don't understand is why the duplication by the ECF?
There is a FIDE arbiter's exam and an ECF arbiter's exam.
There are 4 levels of ECF arbiter and 3 levels of FIDE arbiter with the lowest level FIDE arbiter corresponding to the second lowest ECF arbiter.
Why? What is the point of the two higher ECF levels? What is the point of two exams which presumably both cover the essentials? Why the duplication, confusion and wasted effort?

Surely it would make more sense to just have the one exam and only have levels of ECF arbiter up to the lowest FIDE level and then just use the FIDE ones?

Perhaps it is just an historic artefact which hasn't been tidied up yet. If it were, or at least the anomalous situation acknowledged and the intention expressed to rationalize the situation, then it would pre-empt the badgering from people like Michael Flatt (and perhaps me ;-) )
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

NickFaulks
Posts: 8453
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:55 am

Stewart Reuben wrote: I don't understand why there has been no comment on the ridiculous FIDE title 'National Arbiter'.
As I recall, there was a great deal of adverse comment, causing it to be abandoned in favour of the more sensible "Licenced Arbiter".

edit : for the record, it is the only the name that now make sense - the concept remains meaningless.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a QR code stamped on a human face — forever.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:14 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Stewart Reuben wrote: I don't understand why there has been no comment on the ridiculous FIDE title 'National Arbiter'.
As I recall, there was a great deal of adverse comment, causing it to be abandoned in favour of the more sensible "Licenced Arbiter".

edit : for the record, it is the only the name that now make sense - the concept remains meaningless.
The current title is not "Licensed Arbiter". It is "Arbiter of National Levels".

Whether that is sensible is perhaps best left to the reader to decide.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:27 am

Brian Towers wrote: We seem to be talking at cross purposes here. The French approach seems very sensible and is similar to that of the ICF.

No, what I don't understand is why the duplication by the ECF?
There is a FIDE arbiter's exam and an ECF arbiter's exam.
There are 4 levels of ECF arbiter and 3 levels of FIDE arbiter with the lowest level FIDE arbiter corresponding to the second lowest ECF arbiter.
Why? What is the point of the two higher ECF levels? What is the point of two exams which presumably both cover the essentials? Why the duplication, confusion and wasted effort?

Surely it would make more sense to just have the one exam and only have levels of ECF arbiter up to the lowest FIDE level and then just use the FIDE ones?

Perhaps it is just an historic artefact which hasn't been tidied up yet. If it were, or at least the anomalous situation acknowledged and the intention expressed to rationalize the situation, then it would pre-empt the badgering from people like Michael Flatt (and perhaps me ;-) )
I can't comment about Israel, but my impression is that in France and some other Western European countries arbiters have to reach a national standard above the level of the FA title before those Federations will allow them to seek to acquire that title.

That's no longer the case in England. Anyone who wishes to ignore the ECF Arbiter titles and instead seek to acquire the FA and IA titles is at liberty to do so. It is ECF policy to put people forward once they have met the FIDE requirements for those titles, provided that they pay the appropriate fees.

To an extent the two examinations test different things, with the ECF one being more geared to domestic chess in England. Hence merging the two systems is not currently on the agenda.

Michael Flatt has complained that there is a roadblock preventing people moving along the ECF highway. It's in no sense a remedy to point out that people can move along the FIDE highway instead, but it is at least an option in England.

Daniel Young
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:13 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by Daniel Young » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:54 am

Thanks to Michael, Nick and Brian for your kind words. I'm glad the list is finally updated - not sure what to make of my name being wrong though... :D

Hoping everyone has a good 2016.

Brian Towers
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:29 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:To an extent the two examinations test different things, with the ECF one being more geared to domestic chess in England. Hence merging the two systems is not currently on the agenda.
Thank you for your reply, David, but I'm now I'm even more curious.
In what ways is domestic chess in England different from chess in the rest of the world? And how is that reflected in the ECF exam?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 3551
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Awbridge, Hampshire

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:03 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:To an extent the two examinations test different things, with the ECF one being more geared to domestic chess in England.
It's a bit strange then that the ECF will accept a pass of the FIDE exam in lieu of a pass of the ECF exam for someone who wishes to be an ECF Level 1 arbiter.

David Sedgwick
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Croydon

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by David Sedgwick » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:53 pm

Brian Towers wrote:Thank you for your reply, David, but I'm now I'm even more curious.
In what ways is domestic chess in England different from chess in the rest of the world? And how is that reflected in the ECF exam?
I would cite two things in particular that are tested by the ECF examination:

1. The Unified British Swiss Pairing System, as opposed to the FIDE system(s).

2. A considerable emphasis on play without increments, including Appendix G. This reflects the extent to which play in England is still conducted with mechanical clocks.
Ian Thompson wrote:It's a bit strange then that the ECF will accept a pass of the FIDE exam in lieu of a pass of the ECF exam for someone who wishes to be an ECF Level 1 arbiter.
As has been mentioned upthread, becoming an ECF Level 1 Arbiter is now the minimum ECF qualification for obtaining a FIDE Arbiters' Licence. It would be rather strange if passing the FIDE Arbiter Examination were not a sufficient alternative for this.

John Philpott

Re: An appeal to enrich the pool of Senior ECF Arbiters

Post by John Philpott » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:25 pm

Daniel Young wrote
I'm glad the list is finally updated - not sure what to make of my name being wrong though... :D
As my good deed for Boxing Day, "David" has been corrected to "Daniel".