ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
NickFaulks
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:03 am

This is going to get a report on Radio 4 during the next hour.
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NickFaulks
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by NickFaulks » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:11 am

NickFaulks wrote:This is going to get a report on Radio 4 during the next hour.
update : all over - brief report, completely straight.
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Mick Norris
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:54 am

Any postings on here represent my personal views

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:34 am

BBC report wrote:The Royal Courts of Justice will not be asked to decide if bridge is a sport - only whether it was reasonable for Sport England to have ruled it was not.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:32 am

BBC TV Breakfast News covered it too, polite interviews with a bridge official and a Sport England official. The latter said Bridge was a good game, but it wasn't a sport. The interviewer said you could argue that Rifle shooting (which is a sport) wasn't as you did it lying down. I would have thought that as you need physical control to point the rifle in the right direction and gently squeeze the trigger, it was a sport.

I suspect we will end up discovering that chess and bridge are not sports and Jenga is.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:49 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:I suspect we will end up discovering that chess and bridge are not sports and Jenga is.
I had to look that one up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenga
Jenga is a game of physical and mental skill created by Leslie Scott, and currently marketed by Parker Brothers, a division of Hasbro.
There is another "not a sport" exception, or a "not qualifying for funding" exception. If a sport or game is "owned" by someone or something, it doesn't qualify. So for as long as Parker Brothers/Hasbro own the rights to Scrabble, that cannot be a sport in the legal sense.

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John Upham
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by John Upham » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:51 am

Sports England will use the red herring that every sport must be " improving physical fitness" whilst already recognising ones that do not.
For example, model aircraft flying does require driving around to various venues, standing around and craning the neck upwards. Maybe running towards an aircraft that has landed is important?

However, their real problem is having to distribute their funding to a wider range of activities diverting funds from sports which receive huge media attention.

They should be thinking that including extra sports will require greater funding and staffing from goverment.
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Mick Norris
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by Mick Norris » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:53 am

Roger hasn't played Jenga, that's a big revelation :lol:

In Sport England's position, I'd resist recognising any more sports too
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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:58 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:BBC TV Breakfast News covered it too, polite interviews with a bridge official and a Sport England official. The latter said Bridge was a good game, but it wasn't a sport. The interviewer said you could argue that Rifle shooting (which is a sport) wasn't as you did it lying down. I would have thought that as you need physical control to point the rifle in the right direction and gently squeeze the trigger, it was a sport.
Well come to that you need physical control to pick up the piece and put them down o nthe right squares. Though you may need both hands of course.
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David Robertson

Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by David Robertson » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:45 am

If nomen est omen, the EBU's chances of success have improved a little. The appeal is being heard by Mr Justice Dove

Angus French
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by Angus French » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:28 pm

The Wall Street Journal says:
WSJ wrote:The English Chess Federation has recently joined the bridge union’s suit as a co-plaintiff...
.
*If* this is correct, why didn't the recent ECF news item report it? (And on what grounds has the ECF joined the case and what might it cost?)

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:27 pm

"Well come to that you need physical control to pick up the piece and put them down o nthe right squares. Though you may need both hands of course."

I frequently don't put pieces on the right squares...

Perhaps a QP finish (without increment) is the best way to convince people that chess is a sport, playing a hopefully coherent move, then hitting a small button on a clock, after 7 hours play, is not easy.

"They should be thinking that including extra sports will require greater funding and staffing from goverment."

They can think it, but it will not happen.

Ian Kingston
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by Ian Kingston » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:55 pm

An interesting piece from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34323643

I'd not come across the suggestion that grandmasters can use 6,000 to 7,000 calories a day when competing, and the link given in the article says nothing about the specific claim. A little searching appears to show that neuroscientist Robert Sapolsky made the claim during an address to the Stanford graduating class in 2009, but I don't see anything in his publication list that indicates that he's done any actual research on the topic.

David Robertson

Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by David Robertson » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:03 pm

He looks barmy enough to be a chess player. And given his close knowledge of East African baboons, I'd back him to know about us too.

John Hickman
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Re: ECF may join with English Bridge Union in Judicial Review

Post by John Hickman » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:06 pm

Ian Kingston wrote:I'd not come across the suggestion that grandmasters can use 6,000 to 7,000 calories a day when competing
Possibly this was a misquote of the suggestion that grandmasters use 6,000 to 7,000 calories of alcohol a day when competing :D