International Director "recount"

[Martin Regan]

I didn't say elections, but you don't strike me as someone who bothers to read things very carefully.

I suppose I should, for more clarity, have written, that anyone who is a FIDE placeman has no business even beginning to pontificate on ECF election procedure.

I did complain in Tromso about the voting process for directly elected Commissions, which were an absolute disgrace, and got nowhere.

Oh you complained And then you resigned in disgust at the endemic corruption within the world body?

Ah....

[NickFaulks]

They obviously cut corners to save time, but it works out better an quicker if you have a proper process set up in advance and then do everything methodically and correctly.

[Mike Gunn]

I was sitting in front of Malcolm and can confirm he left before the election results were announced. It did occur to me at the time that Malcolm seemed particularly unlucky with ECF election results, this is the 2nd one he should have won, but lost on the day. But perhaps his luck is changing ...

[Andrew Zigmond]

The second of these. A highly respectable 75 year old widow who had never heard of either David Openshaw or Malcolm Pein, and to whom the names of those casting the votes meant nothing, thereby preserving the integrity of what is required under the ECF rules to be a secret ballot.

I've never quite understood why the vote should be secret, particularly as very few people at the meeting are voting in a purely private capacity. As a certain proportion of those there will have been directed to cast their votes a certain way, publishing the breakdown of the vote should ensure they cast those votes faithfully. A detailed breakdown of the vote would also allow anybody sufficiently obsessive enough to do a full analysis of how the votes were cast - as an aside there was a deeply unpleasant and offensive post on here today I intend to reply to when time permits.

[Roger de Coverly]

- as an aside there was a deeply unpleasant and offensive post on here today I intend to reply to when time permits.

There was an offensive and frankly barking post on the official forum, to which no-one has replied, perhaps just as well. Apparently we're all to blame for the decline of chess in the UK because we actually organise and play chess, but not in the manner approved by an ex-player.

[NickFaulks]

Oh you complained And then you resigned in disgust at the endemic corruption within the world body?

The votes for elected Commissions were completely slipshod but not really corrupt. The result is that on those Commissions a small number of good people are having to do all of the work. I am on the Qualification Commission, whose members are as I'm sure you know appointed by the Chairman, so it's hardly a resigning matter for me.

[David Shepherd]

Maybe the voting should include "abstain with the practice being that all votes are cast" and all elections have the same number of votes cast.

[NickFaulks]

There was an offensive and frankly barking post on the official forum, to which no-one has replied, perhaps just as well. Apparently we're all to blame for the decline of chess in the UK because we actually organise and play chess, but not in the manner approved by an ex-player.

How long do you think before he gets bored and goes away again?

[Martin Regan]

How long do you think before he gets bored and goes away again?

Nick, it is always a badge of honour to be criticised by FIDE placeman. I do not treat the honour lightly.

[JustinHorton]

I suppose I should, for more clarity, have written, that anyone who is a FIDE placeman has no business even beginning to pontificate on ECF election procedure.

There's an awful lot of delegitimising one another's opinions going on.

[Jonathan Rogers]

As a matter of interest, why didn't Malcolm seek a recount? He had some time to do so before the error was uncovered internally, but did not do so and is thought to have accepted a 141-139 defeat without demur. Did he think there had already been a recount before the results were announced?

[John Philpott]

Andrew Zigmond wrote

I've never quite understood why the vote should be secret, particularly as very few people at the meeting are voting in a purely private capacity.

It is entirely legitimate to challenge whether the vote should be secret. However, as a matter of fact, paragraph 12.9.3 of the Procedural Byelaw does state that "the election shall be determined by a secret ballot" and until such time as Council votes to change the Byelaw the Company Secretary will not be taking any action that could infringe the secrecy.

[MartinCarpenter]

I do wonder how secret it actually is right now, mind. Surely its basically trivial for someone to work back from the number of votes on a given voting paper to the person who actually filled it in? Proxies mess it up slightly but still.

You'd have to do something a bit elaborate to avoid that. Probably individual ballot papers/organisation, coding the organisations names and summing the votes vs a hidden computerised look up table. Maybe it isn't worth it

The idea of ensuring that all elections end with the same numbers of votes cast (by making everyone at least abstain) seems like an easy enough and effective thing to do to minimise the risk of this sort of mistake. And (from far above), yes, you probably should have automatic recounts if the results are genuinely close. Far too much risk of something having drifted a little to have any real confidence otherwise.

[Gareth T Ellis]

e: John Philpott » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:42 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote
I've never quite understood why the vote should be secret, particularly as very few people at the meeting are voting in a purely private capacity.
It is entirely legitimate to challenge whether the vote should be secret. However, as a matter of fact, paragraph 12.9.3 of the Procedural Byelaw does state that "the election shall be determined by a secret ballot" and until such time as Council votes to change the Byelaw the Company Secretary will not be taking any action that could infringe the secrecy.
ECF Company Secretary and Financial Controller

It's so secret that our names are on the ballot paper

[Gareth T Ellis]

Mike Gunn » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:10 pm

I was sitting in front of Malcolm and can confirm he left before the election results were announced.

I was sitting near the exit. Malcolm left the room with Gareth Pearce and Suzzane Wood, as the only free ECF official he was probably seeing them out.