Chess Recognition

[Nigel_Davies]

I think Nigel is right that it is an area that needs looking at. The ECF should at heart be an organisation that is about playing chess, rather than just administering it. To not have the likes of Michael Adams, Nigel Short, John Nunn, Jon Speelman on the list as life members just seems wrong, maybe I am missing something.

In addition really surprised Leonard Barden is not on the list and in my opinion that should be rectified without delay.

Thanks for seeing my point that this should be about English CHESS rather than the self congratulation of different ECF political factions.

I deliberately kept the GM numbers down because I felt it might annoy those who think chess is about board room antics and arguing. But I would of course want far more players in there.

[David Shepherd]

I don't really have a problem with those on the list, more I find it hard to understand why some of the great players we have currently and have had in the past are not there.

[Nigel_Davies]

I don't really have a problem with those on the list, more I find it hard to understand why some of the great players we have currently and have had in the past are not there.

I should have put Bob Wade on there too who was invaluable in the development of English chess. There are lots of important omissions, both past and present, but it seems to be mainly federation officials who get the honors.

[IM Jack Rudd]

It's like complaining that there aren't any actors and actresses amongst a list of outstanding theatre technical crew.

Being fair about this, I presume that now the ECF has yearly memberships this is technically just a list of people with free lifetime membership?

It would hardly been that surprising if the ECF did give free lifetime membership to titled players. Or, being more restrictive, to some category like Olympiad players, British champions etc. I was actually modestly surprised to find that they don't but I doubt it matters much Maybe it just never came up since the membership system changed.

Surely in this age of professional chess players such a move would count as a restriction of free trade?
After all, if Nigel was a lifetime member of the ECF he wouldn't be able to change federations!

Not at all. There are plenty of people who are members of the ECF with a FIDE affiliation to another federation.

[Martin Regan]

ND wrote:

Thanks for seeing my point that this should be about English CHESS rather than the self congratulation of different ECF political factions.

I deliberately kept the GM numbers down because I felt it might annoy those who think chess is about board room antics and arguing. But I would of course want far more players in there.

Nigel is it really so difficult to grasp that the Hon VP is an award for volunteers, most of whom are organisers? If you ever bother to volunteer, I'll nominate you.

Using the word "politics" and the phrase "board room antics" is really just a meaningless gesture that plays to the slow of thought. I note you have joined the WCU, but without those "politicians" you so deride no such union would exist.

[Roger de Coverly]

Not at all. There are plenty of people who are members of the ECF with a FIDE affiliation to another federation.

You can only have one FIDE affiliation at a time, but depending on local Federation rules, you can have multiple national memberships if you play in domestic leagues or a locally rated tournaments.

When Karpov challenged Kirsan, they were both "affiliated" to the Russian Federation which infringed a FIDE rule that a Federation could only have one candidate. Karpov was able to quote a German "membership" based on playing in the SchachBundeslegia.

[Andrew Zigmond]

Mick Norris has already linked to both the ECF Player of the year (first awarded in 1984) http://www.englishchess.org.uk/about/co ... -the-year/ and the President's Awards (first awarded 1983) http://www.englishchess.org.uk/about/co ... ts-awards/ Some of the names Nigel Davies mentions can be found there, contrary to his assertion that `they do not appear on any list`.

As I have already noted the Honorary Member and Vice Presidents list seems slightly anachronistic and meaningless. I suspect that the purpose of such an award, if indeed there was one, has long been forgotten. Given the obscurity of some of the names I suspect they were awarded honorary status many years ago. In any case, given that making somebody an Honorary Life Vice President is making them part of a membership category that no longer exists, it doesn't seem much of an honour.

In any case the list has been there for some time, probably as long as the ECF has had a website. So I'm not sure why people are suddenly getting excited and pointing out omissions as if a major scandal had just come to light.

There is possibly an argument for restructuring the whole `honours` system into a new whole rather than a series of disparate awards. My personal suggestion would be a wider selection of player awards (junior of the year, female player etc), the ECF President's Awards rewarding excellence in organisation and a fellowship for contribution to the ECF itself.

[Roger de Coverly]

Given the obscurity of some of the names I suspect they were awarded honorary status many years ago.

I had the BCF's 2004 Yearbook to hand.

This list just seven Vice Presidents, namely

D W Anderton, R J Edwards, B A Fewell, D C Jarrett, J Poole, S Reuben, R G Wade.

I'm not sure about Fewell, although I recognise the name, but I could be confident about picking these out in an identity parade and even knowing their background.

The Honorary Life Members are a little more obscure, the list being

J M Brew (Phillips & Drew? or was it Grieveson Grant, both important sponsors)
J M Glendinning (The name is familiar, but for what?)
N A Grant (no idea)
S Grundy (no idea)
F G Hatto (Welsh organiser?)
M Johnson (no idea)
Dr A Kent (no idea)
Sir Jeremy Morse ( Chairman of Lloyds Bank, important sponsor, also problemist)
G Pearce (Smith & Williamson - sponsor of British Championships)
P Taylor ( Monarch, sponsor of Isle of Man tournaments)

[Andrew Zigmond]

So the Vice Presidents enobled (for want of a better phrase) since 2004 are Farthing, Graham, Johnson, Martin, Majer, Moore, Philpott, G Turner, P Turner, Walsh and Wickham. R G Wade is of course now deceased. With the exception of Moore and G Turner I know all by reputation.

It appears never to have been a convention to recognise titled players with such an award; the absence of both Barden and Penrose (monumental figures even prior to the Fischer boom) is noticeable. Nigel Davies is right to say we should honour more of our top players but he is wrong to portray a not very well publicised list as some kind of snub to them.

[Nigel_Davies]

Nigel is it really so difficult to grasp that the Hon VP is an award for volunteers, most of whom are organisers? If you ever bother to volunteer, I'll nominate you.

Using the word "politics" and the phrase "board room antics" is really just a meaningless gesture that plays to the slow of thought. I note you have joined the WCU, but without those "politicians" you so deride no such union would exist.

There is a considerable blur between voluntary and professional chess activity, as anyone with a lifetime's experience of chess involvement will tell you. Meanwhile please note that this thread has been separated from the one you started and is about those who genuinely put something into the game outside of thinking they were achieving something via their political activities. I might ask how much chess you have played, how many people you've taught or how many events you've organized but I feel the point would be wasted.

[Joshua Gibbs]

Nigel, to follow up on a point I made on a previous thread, I feel the problem is not so much to do with chess but the education system and our (Western) society in general. Too many people are given accolades for stuff which is in my opinion, and the opinion of others, useless. I think because you are an extremely talented chess professional (have wrote very good books, made good DVDS, ETC ETC) you have singled in on chess having the problem whereas the problem is with modern society as a whole.

[Nigel_Davies]

Nigel, to follow up on a point I made on a previous thread, I feel the problem is not so much to do with chess but the education system and our (Western) society in general. Too many people are given accolades for stuff which is in my opinion, and the opinion of others, useless. I think because you are an extremely talented chess professional (have wrote very good books, made good DVDS, ETC ETC) you have singled in on chess having the problem whereas the problem is with modern society as a whole.

You may well be right Joshua.

Returning to the original post (now separated onto another thread) I understand that the proposed Vice President, though well intentioned, achieved absolutely nothing apart from creating annoyance. The poster had a similarly unsuccessful track record as do others with the title. So yes, it seems devastatingly unfair to leave any of them out, who is to say that their nothing should be any less than that of the others nothings?

[Alex McFarlane]

The Honorary Life Members are a little more obscure, the list being

J M Brew (Phillips & Drew? or was it Grieveson Grant, both important sponsors)
J M Glendinning (The name is familiar, but for what?)
N A Grant (no idea)
S Grundy (no idea)
F G Hatto (Welsh organiser?)
M Johnson (no idea)
Dr A Kent (no idea)
Sir Jeremy Morse ( Chairman of Lloyds Bank, important sponsor, also problemist)
G Pearce (Smith & Williamson - sponsor of British Championships)
P Taylor ( Monarch, sponsor of Isle of Man tournaments)

John Brew was with Grievson Grant and with the renamed company Klienwort Benson and various other incarnations.
John Glendinning is a long time organiser in Scotland (now retired). He was a leading junior player playing in a Scotland team which won the Glorney.
Frank Hatto was a Welsh Organiser and long time arbiter at the British.

[Martin Regan]

ND wrote:

I might ask how much chess you have played, how many people you've taught or how many events you've organized but I feel the point would be wasted

But it wouldn't. Although its true I've not played a competitive game for years I can still be found on the odd occassion at my chess club as for congresses, yes I've organised quite a few and I also captained county teams for Cheshire and North Wales. Indeed Nigel may years ago I recall asking you to play for the team and you, in effect, telling me you couldn't be arsed.

As for teaching, I have done some voluntary work in local schools, but I've never been remotely good enough to charge for the lessons.

[MartinCarpenter]

There is possibly an argument for restructuring the whole `honours` system into a new whole rather than a series of disparate awards. My personal suggestion would be a wider selection of player awards (junior of the year, female player etc), the ECF President's Awards rewarding excellence in organisation and a fellowship for contribution to the ECF itself.

Probably there is. Definitely a case for presenting it all rather better. An example of what the EBU do is here:
http://www.ebu.co.uk/awards

Quite a few different types of awards - only actually adding the annual award for players very recently. More importantly though, there's various different categories, descriptions of what they actually mean and little bios with photos of the people who get them. I guess that might make them mean more to the people getting them, but it is also very definitely better for publicity purposes.