ECF Vacancies

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
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Nigel_Davies
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Nigel_Davies » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:14 am

Mick Norris wrote:I know there's sponsorship at local tournaments (credit to Heywood, they have 3 or 4) but they tend to be connections with local players (that's how we always did it at Bury) - Stockport Rapidplay (30th edition next Sunday) was sponsored by their local Vernon Building Society at one point, but like many tournaments now exists without sponsorship

The recent Shropshire Congress attracted 12 titled players due to offering £1,000 first prize, but there is no mention of the sponsor, so like the London Chess Classic that's actually a benefactor (and no less welcome for that)

Sean Hewitt has explained the potential sponsorship "value" of the e2e4 tournaments is very low

Tradewise sponsorship is very welcome for Hastings no doubt, but that's an aside of a bigger overall deal

Going back a few years, we had excellent tournaments in Liverpool thanks to the hard work of Prof Robertson et al, but there's been no follow up elsewhere (and in Manchester I have tried but no-one else wants to help)

Have there been any major English events with sponsorship in the last 5 years? And as Justin asks, what has been stopping anyone organising them?
There's a good way to find out. Check who has brought funding into chess and check their qualifications. Here's a list of people that immediately come to mind, not in any particular order:

Raymond Keene
Malcolm Pein
Leonard Barden
Stewart Reuben
David Anderton
David Norwood

Note the distinct lack of know-all patzer politicians, they're all serious players. Also note that there's been a distinct shortage of strong players on the ECF board, at least until recently. I posit that this is not unrelated to the lack of ECF sponsorship.

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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:21 am

Nigel_Davies wrote: There's a good way to find out. Check who has brought funding into chess and check their qualifications. Here's a list of people that immediately come to mind, not in any particular order:

Raymond Keene
Malcolm Pein
Leonard Barden
Stewart Reuben
David Anderton
David Norwood

Note the distinct lack of know-all patzer politicians, they're all serious players. Also note that there's been a distinct shortage of strong players on the ECF board, at least until recently. I posit that this is not unrelated to the lack of ECF sponsorship.
Nigel. Nobody is preventing these people from organising chess tournaments, are they? They are not being obstructed from doing so, are they?
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Martin Regan

Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Martin Regan » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:32 am

ND:
As you seem to like to pretend to know so much (and are no doubt deeply disappointed that your magnificent term as CEO didn't bring you an Honorary Vice Presidency or knighthood), perhaps you'd like to list the last 5 ECF sponsorship deals and state the name of the person that brought them in!?
Nigel, I'm not playing the game of answering new questions everytime you get something wrong. The ECF could have had five sponsorship deals in the past few years, it could have had none. I don't know and neither do you.

It is you who has arrived at this board with a back-of-a-fag packet plan for the federation. You who have made sweeping statements about the uselessness of volunteers and you with your lack of any concievable business skill who is pontificating on the future organisation of English chess.

By all means do so. But think before you write.

And viz a viz your facile last point I believe John Robinson, a patzer in your world, contributed more to English chess than all the ones you name combined.

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Nigel_Davies
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Nigel_Davies » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:35 am

JustinHorton wrote:
Nigel_Davies wrote: There's a good way to find out. Check who has brought funding into chess and check their qualifications. Here's a list of people that immediately come to mind, not in any particular order:

Raymond Keene
Malcolm Pein
Leonard Barden
Stewart Reuben
David Anderton
David Norwood

Note the distinct lack of know-all patzer politicians, they're all serious players. Also note that there's been a distinct shortage of strong players on the ECF board, at least until recently. I posit that this is not unrelated to the lack of ECF sponsorship.
Nigel. Nobody is preventing these people from organising chess tournaments, are they? They are not being obstructed from doing so, are they?
Let's go through the list. Malcolm Pein is a current organizer, Leonard Barden, David Anderton and Steward Reuben seem to have scaled down with the years. David Norwood is now in Andorra and Raymond Keene has been at a distance from the ECF for some time. Of course besides a good knowledge of chess and being someone that can be taken seriously, some official capacity is going to be helpful. And this is why I've suggested that the ECF (and other federations) need as many people who fit these criterium as possible.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:48 am

Nigel_Davies wrote: Of course besides a good knowledge of chess and being someone that can be taken seriously, some official capacity is going to be helpful.
Where would Andrew Paulson fit on this list? He spent a lot of money in England on the Grand Prix tournament and the Candidates. His attempt to take over the ECF ended in failure within a few months after major rows with his fellow directors and Nigel Short.

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JustinHorton
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by JustinHorton » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:07 am

Nigel_Davies wrote:Let's go through the list. Malcolm Pein is a current organizer, Leonard Barden, David Anderton and Steward Reuben seem to have scaled down with the years. David Norwood is now in Andorra and Raymond Keene has been at a distance from the ECF for some time. Of course besides a good knowledge of chess and being someone that can be taken seriously, some official capacity is going to be helpful. And this is why I've suggested that the ECF (and other federations) need as many people who fit these criterium as possible.
So in other words, none of these people are actually currently organising international tournaments save the one who is actually on the ECF Board.
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Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:09 am

The Tradewise deal seems to me to be pretty close to what Andrew Paulson was suggesting the ECF should do
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NickFaulks
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:11 am

Paolo Casaschi wrote: Even worse, I think such a policy would have the result of fewer and fewer small tournament deciding to be FIDE rated.
While everywhere else in the world, FIDE and national federations are pushing to extend FIDE ratings to more and more tournament and people.
That is of course true. If I didn't know better I would wonder whether Nigel had joined up with the faction in English chess which still has no enthusiasm for FIDE rated competition.

Another likely result of this scheme is that far more players would follow Nigel's own lead and move to another federation in order to avoid the impost.
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Brian Towers
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Brian Towers » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:37 pm

NickFaulks wrote:Another likely result of this scheme is that far more players would follow Nigel's own lead and move to another federation in order to avoid the impost.
Nigel "Baldrick" Davies' "cunning plan" to turn the WCU into a financial powerhouse exposed!

Just to throw another sponsor's name into the mix, what about chess amateur Jim Slater? Surely his contributions to British and world chess exceed all other British efforts combined?
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Sean Hewitt
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:40 pm

Nigel_Davies wrote:
Martin Regan wrote:ND:
Tradewise was not brought in by a current ECF person.
Had you said that the current ECF board had not brought in sponsorship ok, though given they've only had a few months I'd think it was a tad harsh.

But you didn;t, you said the ECF had never brought sponsorship. You know you're wrong. I know you're wrong, the forum knows you're wrong. And no comedy answer escapes that.
As you seem to like to pretend to know so much (and are no doubt deeply disappointed that your magnificent term as CEO didn't bring you an Honorary Vice Presidency or knighthood), perhaps you'd like to list the last 5 ECF sponsorship deals and state the name of the person that brought them in!? If that one's too difficult then you might like to state the moves which constitute scholar's mate!?
Prior to Tradewise the previous sponsorship deal would have been Ceredigion County Council's five figure sponsorship of the Aberystwyth British Championships. That was a proper commercial deal. I negotiated and delivered it. The British Championships continue to be the ECF's most marketable commodity.

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Nigel_Davies
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Nigel_Davies » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:55 pm

I think my presence here is now well passed a point of diminishing returns.
Last edited by Nigel_Davies on Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:51 pm

I have indeed downscaled my chess activities of more recent years and that is partly deliberate. But please note the CCCCC 2-10 April which I am organising. In the last couple of years I have raised £20,000. But that is not entirely accurate. The philanthropist came to me, not the other way round.

In this thread there is a misunderstanding in terminology.
Business sponsorship, by which I mean companies putting in money to receive favourable media attention. Ray Keene and Leonard Barden win hands down in terms of the amounts. Nowadays it is very difficult to raise money in this way. Football has sucked the available money for minority sports out of our society. At one time I think we had 10 business sponsors of chess. It is true that som of those sponsors also wanted to support the great game.
Philanthropy. Malcom Pein has worked wonders here.
Personal donation. The John Robinson Trust is enormous. Most of David Norwood's support came from him personally. Jim Slater's money was channelled via Leoanrd.

The list Nigel Davies gave was not typified by our being fairly strong players. It was that we came from earlier times. Ray Keene gave up because it was no longer possible to be successful. In his period he raised millions. Nonetheless you would indeed expect the most valuable chess administrators also to be reasonably strong players. Michael Basman's success with The UK Chess Challenge should not be overlooked.

None of you has mentioned Brian Callaghan. He has raised huge amounts for the Gibraltar Congress. The prize money this year is £175,000. That event comes under the ECF Umbrella. In England, the local philanthropy where companies were willing to donate money, has virtually disappeared.

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Adam Raoof
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Adam Raoof » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:42 pm

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... ce#p168077

Looking forward to this year's event!
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Mick Norris
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:41 am

Adam

How have you managed to find sponsorship when no-one else seems able to?

And what do you think of Nigel's ideas here?
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Andrew Zigmond
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Re: ECF Vacancies

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:42 am

Stewart Reuben wrote: The list Nigel Davies gave was not typified by our being fairly strong players. It was that we came from earlier times. Ray Keene gave up because it was no longer possible to be successful. In his period he raised millions. Nonetheless you would indeed expect the most valuable chess administrators also to be reasonably strong players. Michael Basman's success with The UK Chess Challenge should not be overlooked.
It does seem that part of the problem was that at a critical point new entrepreneurs did not come forward, possibly because the money was no longer there - as Stewart says. If we wanted we could have a lengthy thread analysing exactly what was happening in English chess year by year, who was doing what and whether it was within the ECF or outside of it. And of course who held positions within the ECF and who was unsuccessful. Such a thread would not be uninteresting but we wouldn't be any further on at the end of it.

In the relatively short time I've been involved with ECF politics it does seem that titled players or those offering to bring a more professional approach are generally welcomed into the fold. A good example would be Andrew Paulson's election; ECF Council were prepared to give him a chance even if the warning signs were already there.

Before this thread deteriorated into a slanging match some good ideas were put forward. Dare I suggest that we could achieve a lot more by working together?
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