Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:43 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote: I agree it seems a bit harsh on some of the 2 day congresses, but change can be tough.
So can unchallengeable decisions of stupidity by the ECF.

Richard Bates
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:41 pm

Just, er, somewhat belatedly got around to reading these. They are, er, brave...

1) Am I interpreting correctly that if you didn't meet the title/rating requirement a month ago, then that route to qualification is already ruled out? Even, on a literal reading, for GMs/IMs?
2) What is the logic behind specifying a rating requirement for FMs, but not for IMs/GMs? (Performances of the sub 2300s in this year's tournament so far might give some cause for thought...)
3) Other than the Major Open (below) the main qualifying route for 'amateurs' being a grand prix where qualification isn't officially determined until July 1st 2018? And where a number of qualifiers will probably decline their place, so little opportunity to pass the places on if that is even allowed.
4) 20 top places from the 2017 British Championship - no mention of "not otherwise qualified". Is this an omission? It must be given that most of the actual top 20 will qualify automatically or through the various 'champion' routes. There seems to be a general lack of clarity about places carrying down - given that it is mentioned in relation to some qualification routes, but not in others.
5) 10 places (+ties!) from the 2017 Major Open? So FMs have to be 2300, but no problem with a load of 1900s getting in? So much for getting rid of the tail.
6) 60% at Isle of Man/Gibraltar will be a tough ask... ;)

Nick Grey
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Nick Grey » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:32 pm

The 10+ places from Major Open does not make sense when 10th starting rank is rated just over 2000 and nobody above 2150 (unlike previous years).

The top 20 in seniors 50 are rated over 2000 and is a much stronger tournament.

Leaving the qualification for a grand prix so late may get ECF to reduce players below 2050 which may help with norms apart from the number of juniors in the championship.

Will there be as many strong GMs next year as this year (which is already down on 2016)?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:59 pm

Nick Grey wrote:The 10+ places from Major Open does not make sense when 10th starting rank is rated just over 2000 and nobody above 2150 (unlike previous years).
It depends on what you think is the intention. Providing a soft route to qualification to 2018 British is an incentive to increase entries to the 2017 Major Open.

Incidentally does anyone have any hot rumours as to where the 2018 Congress is going to be held? Someone speculated Hull as a deferral from its City of Culture status in 2017.

Nick Grey
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:59 am

Roger you have a good chance of qualifying so best wishes. You seem likely to end up playing a under-rated junior at some point that is actually very strong so do not knock the gradings. Richard Bates has made some excellent points.

Though with lack of prize money on offer in the British Championship for U2200 means what is the point in wanting to qualify. You may even get better games in the seniors. 20 players at 2000+ in both sections compared to 10 in Major Open. it is nice to see Daniel Young leading the Major Open at the moment.

I hope not Hull - I'm blinkered though by a suicide at the University that happened a day before my visit. So hope not end up there.

Anyway I also know the west coast is better than the east from my geography studies as well as my walking. As much as I also like the south coast I agree it is a bit far for those from up north.

Alan Walton
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Alan Walton » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:56 am

After reading them again this morning, I understand the following against Richard's points

1) All GM/IM/WGM/WIM qualify automatically; rewards achieve a title which requires norms, rather than just a rating
2) FM/WFM over 2300 & 2100 respectively @ 1st July 2017 qualify; makes sense using this date, since then these players now know that there is no need to go through the Grand Prix, and relax
3) The Grand Prix does seem a little late in the day to make a decision to play in 2018, but the proposal does allow deferral onto the following year
4) Agree that top 20 should theoretically all be titled players in future years, but this year maybe not; it does say all ties qualify, so if 20th place is top player say on 5.5/9; then all 5.5 qualify so could go down quite far this one
5) Major Open route is the opposite of (4) this year; maybe too many U2000s qualify for 2018, but in future years it may become an easier route to qualify than the Grand Prix, it also could reinvigorate the Major Open containing more players in the 2200-2300 bracket
6) Totally agree, the 60% rule on the list provided most probably works for the other events; but at Isle of Man 5.5/9 will most probably be a IM norm at least, and at Gibraltar 6/10 would be amazing score for player U2300; I nearly got a norm with 4.5/10 and that year the 2 Qualifying places got 5/10

Overall though I think the proposal is a better way forward than current incarnation

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:00 am

For Rated events 9 rounds or more, why not use TPR rather than score? Perhaps 2350 TPR would be chosen.
The British should not be dumbed-down. But anybody should be able to qualify, irrespective of their previous history.

Alan Walton
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Alan Walton » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:11 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:For Rated events 9 rounds or more, why not use TPR rather than score? Perhaps 2350 TPR would be chosen.
The British should not be dumbed-down. But anybody should be able to qualify, irrespective of their previous history.
Totally agree, TPR seems a more logical choice in these events

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:12 pm

Alan Walton wrote:
Totally agree, TPR seems a more logical choice in these events
You may be in with a chance of qualifying starting the last round. How do you find out your TPR and what it would become, win,draw or loss?

Alan Walton
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Alan Walton » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:38 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alan Walton wrote:
Totally agree, TPR seems a more logical choice in these events
You may be in with a chance of qualifying starting the last round. How do you find out your TPR and what it would become, win,draw or loss?
Roger, you can calculate it yourself it isn't too difficult

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:13 pm

Alan Walton wrote: Roger, you can calculate it yourself it isn't too difficult
If you might tie with 9 or 10 other people, you have to know their TPRs as well. It's the same with grading prizes, the chart on the wall is much easier.

Alan Walton
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Alan Walton » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:57 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alan Walton wrote: Roger, you can calculate it yourself it isn't too difficult
If you might tie with 9 or 10 other people, you have to know their TPRs as well. It's the same with grading prizes, the chart on the wall is much easier.
It doesn't matter about ties, the qualification will be anybody getting a performance over 2350 qualifies automatically; it is unlikely there will be many players rated under 2300 achieve this

John Reyes
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by John Reyes » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:16 pm

Alan Walton wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Alan Walton wrote: Roger, you can calculate it yourself it isn't too difficult
If you might tie with 9 or 10 other people, you have to know their TPRs as well. It's the same with grading prizes, the chart on the wall is much easier.
It doesn't matter about ties, the qualification will be anybody getting a performance over 2350 qualifies automatically; it is unlikely there will be many players rated under 2300 achieve this
why do you think that the strong GM/IM never turn up to the british?

I know I bump into an IM last month and he told me he been abroad looking for points, as he can't get an GM norm here in the UK?
Any postings on here represent my personal views only and also Dyslexia as well

Alan Walton
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Alan Walton » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:09 pm

John Reyes wrote:
Alan Walton wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
If you might tie with 9 or 10 other people, you have to know their TPRs as well. It's the same with grading prizes, the chart on the wall is much easier.
It doesn't matter about ties, the qualification will be anybody getting a performance over 2350 qualifies automatically; it is unlikely there will be many players rated under 2300 achieve this
why do you think that the strong GM/IM never turn up to the british?

I know I bump into an IM last month and he told me he been abroad looking for points, as he can't get an GM norm here in the UK?
The British is pretty strong this year, and a very good opportunity for GM norm

Mick Norris
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:28 am

I assume Craig Hanley has a decent chance of a GM norm and there are IM norm chances for a couple of players
Any postings on here represent my personal views