Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Paul Cooksey
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Paul Cooksey » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:34 am

I assumed at the time Stewart had looked at Matthew's Elo without realising it is lagging behind his ECF.

I don't see people like Matthew as a problem for the new rules, on the basis if he wanted to play he could raise his Elo fairly easily.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by LawrenceCooper » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:58 am

Paul Cooksey wrote:I assumed at the time Stewart had looked at Matthew's Elo without realising it is lagging behind his ECF.

I don't see people like Matthew as a problem for the new rules, on the basis if he wanted to play he could raise his Elo fairly easily.
I would definitely view him as a potential norm seeker.

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Michael Farthing » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:17 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Answers to the quiz:
1. Jonathan is absolutely right. Impossible to win, impossible to lose.
Though, curiously, if white were blessed in addition with a bishop (of opposite colour) he would presumably then lose!

[And to be rather picky, although in question 5 there is a rook on a1 and a king on e1, the arbiter does not know that they have always been there. Slight change of wording perhaps needed if you reuse the quiz, Stewart].

Chris Rice
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Chris Rice » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:20 am

Alan Atkinson wrote:Regarding the Thanet : a change, for it to become a FIDE rated event, was briefly considered a few years ago: we could not certainly do it then because we would be reliant upon being able to find the required qualified arbiters : there are none in Thanet; [I am going through the process now, but it has taken over a year, has involved some cost, and is not yet complete. And if/when I do become a FA, we would still need another because all arbiters need to be at least FIDE Licensed, and we should have a reserve "just in case".]

And yes, ideally the competitors would all have gold membership, but in fact the Open section tends to have only a few players without that membership class. So having the general Congress circuit become FIDE rated might well be of benefit to the ECF, as players will have to pay more for their annual membership.

Are people being too cynical to imagine that was a planned intention?!

AA
I assume now as Alan is now an FA that we're one step closer to Thanet being FIDE rated this year?

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:38 pm

Michael Farthing > although in question 5 there is a rook on a1 and a king on e1, the arbiter does not know that they have always been there. <

The convention in chess 'puzzles' is that, unless otherwise stated, castling is possible - if legal.

e.g. Ra Ke1 Black kd8. White to move. Black's last move must hve been Kxd8. Thus White can play 1 0-0-0+.

If it is Black to move, White's last move must have been of the king or rook. Thus 1...Kd7 2 0-0-0 is illegal.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:58 am

The rules for 2018 have now been published.

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/british- ... ualifying/

Council including the representatives of those Congresses whose qualification places have been removed and those players whose ability to qualify by grade has been removed has not been given a formal opportunity to comment, let alone vote on these proposals.

It's clear from what I've seen on entry forms for the 2017-18 season, that some Congress organisers are in complete ignorance of the proposals. For some, unless they go FIDE rated, which is not possible in practice for an event with five rounds over two days, they face exclusion from the qualification process.

It could be raised this afternoon. There's a discussion on who should attend and have votes at ECF Council meetings. I'd suggest it matters less, who has votes, than what it is they are allowed to vote on.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:10 am

Roger For some, unless they go FIDE rated, which is not possible in practice for an event with five rounds over two days

Why not all the moves in 2 hours with 5 rounds i 2 days? That may not be as fashionable as it once was, but it is practical. Of course all in 110 + 5 seconds a move would be superior.

Mick Norris
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:19 am

Can you FIDE rate events with 3 rounds in a day?
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:29 am

No more than 12 hours per day.
Where at least one player is 2200 or higher, a minimum of 120 minutes, assuming the game lasts 60 moves. I have just realised that would have to be 115 minutes + 5 seconds a move, or 110 with 10 seconds.
When I drafted the rules, I deliberately made it possible to play 3 rounds on Saturday.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:30 am

Stewart Reuben wrote: Why not all the moves in 2 hours with 5 rounds i 2 days? That may not be as fashionable as it once was, but it is practical. Of course all in 110 + 5 seconds a move would be superior.
These options require 9:00 am or 9:30 am starts and potentially 11:00 pm or later finishes. All of the five round in two day Congresses, which are numerous in the South East, employ session lengths of three and a half hours. This enables a civilised starting time and an earlier evening finish. Don't forget that players may have an hour's travel both before and after the day's play.
Mick Norris wrote:Can you FIDE rate events with 3 rounds in a day?
Provided the session length is at least 4 hours and if there's an intermediate time control it's at move 40. You can use G/120 or 40/100 + 20. Round times are going to be something like 9:00 to 13:00,14:00 to 18:00 and 19:00 to 23:00 which I don't believe players and organisers now find acceptable. Events with five rounds in two days are usually those in a school or community centre where there's an expectation that players will be travelling from home every day.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Stewart Reuben » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:45 am

It is unfashionable to have 12 hours play, but not, as Roger said, impossible.
After all 1500 players managed to do so without complaints in 1973 in Islington.

I did not want games of less than 4 hours to count for FIDE Rating of players who might well be involved with itle GM norm opportunities. U2200, the first one counts as 2200, no matter what his/her rating is.

You can also have 45 minutes between rounds. In 1973 all pairings were done by hand.

Mick Norris
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:11 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Mick Norris wrote:Can you FIDE rate events with 3 rounds in a day?
Provided the session length is at least 4 hours and if there's an intermediate time control it's at move 40. You can use G/120 or 40/100 + 20. Round times are going to be something like 9:00 to 13:00,14:00 to 18:00 and 19:00 to 23:00 which I don't believe players and organisers now find acceptable. Events with five rounds in two days are usually those in a school or community centre where there's an expectation that players will be travelling from home every day.
Indeed, it would be ridculous
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Graham Borrowdale
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:59 pm

But if all the events in the south-east changed their time controls to enable them to be FIDE-rated to enable them to have a British Championship qualifying place, there would once again be too many players qualifying for the British and the long tail would reappear. I thought one of the points of restructuring the British was to increase the overall strength of the British by eliminating much of the long tail. It does seem to be an unintended consequence of the reforms that the more leisurely congresses, with 5 rounds over 3 days, and therefore able to be FIDE-rated, will be able to keep their qualifying places, whereas many of the 'local' congresses, which are held over 2 days, primarily so that players can avoid Friday night travel, will not.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:14 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote:It does seem to be an unintended consequence of the reforms that the more leisurely congresses, with 5 rounds over 3 days, and therefore able to be FIDE-rated, will be able to keep their qualifying places,
It shows that very few people have actually read and digested the proposal. What's happening is that all weekend Congresses are having their direct qualification places taken away from them. Those that are FIDE rated will qualify for a Grand Prix where the top x will qualify for the next British. There's a convoluted formula for how points are scored which is designed to only count your best three results. The arguments in favour of not extending this Grand Prix to two day Congresses such as Hertford, Bury St Edmonds, Kidlington, St Albans, Weald etc are to my mind spurious.

In addition, by removing the use of ECF grades as a qualification route, they've also removed the ability to qualify by performance in strong leagues such as the London League or the Yorkshire League.

Graham Borrowdale
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Re: Proposed British Chess Championship Qualifying Regulations

Post by Graham Borrowdale » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:25 pm

Thanks for the correction Roger. My substantive point is the same though, although in that case you would need to do well in a number of FIDE-rated congresses rather than have a single good result. On balance this seems to make sense. I agree it seems a bit harsh on some of the 2 day congresses, but change can be tough.